Butterflies in my battleaxe

Armchair Warrior
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,354

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 2:31:37 GMT

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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 17, 2017 2:31:37 GMT

Ok. It's game time. And I've got butterflies in my battleaxe.

Context is important. I'm at GenCon and am competing In the Masters event on Friday . My objectives are to play clean, and try to go 2-2. I'm a so so player, and win maybe half my games. (Cirga can validate if this comment reflects an inflated ego.) One of my major shortcomings is lack of experience ...I've been playing for a about 5 years, but only play irregularly due to work. Anyhow, I feel like I do all right all things considered, but do get thumped when I don't know what to expect.

So one of my major concerns going to GenCon is that I'm going to drop into stuff I've just never seen or played against, and won't even know which of my lists to pick. At the start of the game, I'll not know what dumb stuff to just not do. Case in point... I played into Iron Mother 2 weeks ago with Karchev. That should have been an OK match up, but didn't see the 18" drag threat and so got roflestomped on 2…

So, I'm writing to ask for your thoughts on which of my lists to drop into what popular casters, and any thoughts on how to handle the tactics of those match ups. I know this is an overly broad question but maybe other less experienced players will appreciate your wisdom.

My lists...

Khador - Butcher 3 Kommand
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army

Kommander Zoktavir, the Butcher Unleashed - WJ: +22
- War Argus
- War Dog - PC: 3
- Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5)
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Marauder - PC: 10
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 4
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Rifle Corps - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
- Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard - 0
Winter Guard Mortar Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 0

This is my Cryx drop. It's also supposed to handle weapon-master spam. In general I think it does well into Warmachine match ups, and i generally find B3 not a bad all comers drop (although this list won't play too well against casters who just shut down shooting). Ret and Merc jacks are sad against all those rockets. I'm not sold on Menoth since Menoth jacks won't care about the guns. But I hardly ever face Menoth so what do I know.... I feel like it can do OK against Cygnar, although my Karchev list may do well too depending on the matchup so I'd appreciate input here as well...

So, here's my second list. The only "list thing" I'm really debating is the 3rd free solo... I have the Mech officer in here to gain better coverage with the mechanics, and have one truly reliable you-can't-kill-me-trivially support mech for Karchev who is usually central to the battlegroup. (I just don't understand people who say they don't get work out of their mechs...not my experience). Other options I've tried and also like: I like the Marksman as an early RTW trigger and to camp flags. I like the dog for Def 14, but when I lose with Karchev it's usually not on assassination (unless I'm really dumb like in the CoC matchup, but the dog won't save me from my own stupidity). Thoughts?

In general I feel like Karchev jack spam does really well into Hordes lists. If my opponent brought 4 or more heavies, I'm going to trade up really well. I love it into Legion (who cares about dodge when I have countercharge?). Circle losing AD is just so awesome, and I have done all right into the wormwood matchup with Karchev. Karchev likes minions, and I don't worry if my opponent has a couple full units of dudes (even dudes with Prey). It's just a lot of beef to find through. Remarkably, I've done fine into Skorne including Zaal immortal spam. I guess Butcher would do all right here too.... I've played that matchup once. But, the immortals are like honey badgers to my Winterguard...they just don't care. I haven't played into Makeda double cats, but my intuition says Karchev with countercharge for the same reason I like Karchev into Oracles. You brought 49 points for 11 models with dodge? Ok... so it's your 11 cats against 4 countercharging jacks and a unit of Eliminators. I don't feel like those odds are great but they don't feel disadvantaged either. I can't remember the last time I played Trolls, but my instinct says Karchev.

Khador - Karchev's 8 Jaws Double Elims

Theme: Jaws of the Wolf
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army

Karchev the Terrible - WJ: +30
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Marauder - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Marauder - PC: 10
- Juggernaut - PC: 12
- Juggernaut - PC: 12
- Juggernaut - PC: 12
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3
- Battle Mechanik Officer - PC: 0 (swap?)
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5

I have no idea who to play into Grymkin. I have not played against them. I basically think I'm screwed into Grymkin. What's my default? (Besides Tilt).

I am a little lost into POM. Say, Amon. 9 jacks should hate a synergy chain, but his jacks won't care about my shooting so maybe Karchev is better? High reclaimer? It seems like I want the remove from play, but my WG infantry is going to hate the clouds and ashes to ashes hate.

I am unsure about Cygnar. I feel like Butcher is the default drop for the sac pawn, energizer and impending doom. Also if there's a colossal then I've still got 2 marauders. But infantry doesn't like electroleaps, and can you really outgun the Gun Faction? I recently dropped jack heavy lists into Stryker 3 and Caine 3 (to be fair, it was Strakhov) and felt pretty comfortable. Hmm... Recommendations?

As for CoC I've played one game into them in the past year. My opponent liked like large bases. A lot it seems. Karchev's marauders eat large bases for breakfast. Am I wrong to make Special K my CoC drop?

So, in general, what do you think?

kovnikninehouse
Junior Strategist

Posts: 296

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 3:01:49 GMT via mobile Armchair Warrior and Growl like this

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Post by kovnikninehouse on Aug 17, 2017 3:01:49 GMT

I find against grymkin you gotta remember what arcana trigger off control and what ones trigger off command. They apply your attacks according. Try to force them into triggering an arcana they don't wanna trigger instead of the one they do.

2 other things if they have the healing one make to not spread the damage around and focus fire on 1 Beast at a time.

The other as it kinda ties into that is watch their crabbit placements as all those little rabbits have shield guard and can enable the grymkin player to trigger the arcana they want

Netherby
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,022

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 5:24:18 GMT Armchair Warrior and Growl like this

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Post by Netherby on Aug 17, 2017 5:24:18 GMT

Hmm, well first I think the chances of coming up against stuff you haven't seen before is lower than you think. Sure there will be a lot of different stuff, but most people will actually be playing the more common pairings. That's why they are common. So you have a higher chance of NOT seeing the weirder stuff

Don't over think your drops. Unless a match up is horribly unfavourable it doesn't actually matter that much. Much more important is figuring out what your opponents list does and have some idea how you're going to play your list into it. Obviously identifying that they have an 18" drag in their list is pretty important

Once list selection is done you should pretty much always load up their caster and any other models that look important or you're unfamiliar with and have a read over their abilities. Even if you think you know their caster it's a good idea, I often forget abilities or mix them up between versions of a caster.

I wouldn't worry about Grymkin that much. They have a small selection of casters and models at this point. Just look at what their current two casters do and make sure to read Arcana cards that they pick. All you have to really keep in mind is: Will an Arcana they haven't played yet stop this plan working? Don't base a whole turn around doing something that they can shutdown with an Arcana. Either do the thing first to see if they trigger it, do something else to try to bait it out or have a decent PLAN B.

leotherat
Junior Strategist

Posts: 374

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 12:22:50 GMT kovnikninehouse likes this

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Post by leotherat on Aug 17, 2017 12:22:50 GMT

The most important thing to remember about a Gen Con match up is that you're there to have fun. If you can accomplish your goal of 2-2 then more power to you but just relax and enjoy the experience.

kovnikninehouse Junior Strategist Posts: 296	Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 12:48:43 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by kovnikninehouse on Aug 17, 2017 12:48:43 GMT Yeah I went to the SOO for the first time this year and went 0 and 4 but had a really good time

cageyj0nny
Begnner strats

Posts: 97

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 13:33:25 GMT jisidro likes this

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Post by cageyj0nny on Aug 17, 2017 13:33:25 GMT

Id drop the battle mech officer in your karchev list and throw in the widowmaker marksman instead. He's great at going for flags and he can proc road to war.

I run a similar B3 list but i take GC instead and ive had a fair bit of success with it, although thats probably due to the resurgence of infantry spam.

smoothcriminal
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,212

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 14:32:22 GMT

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Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 17, 2017 14:32:22 GMT

I suggest:
- check their spell list
- if it has lamentation/no pushes consider Karchev
- otherwise B3 is safe drop

He's easier to play against unknown matchup as you only have B3 himself to keep safe while Karchev can just lose too much stuff to opposing tricks and get beaten on mission.
I don't know how you're beating Legion that outthreats, outdamages and outhits with Karchev, but to each his own I guess.

Non-defskew hordes are indeed good for Karchev's band of trading up cheap jacks.

Amon is okay for B3, trade stuff and try to shoot book and choir while waiting for good feat turn opportunity. Karchev isn't that good, since Amon will be trading up.

Grymkin is inferior Cryx. Carefully read how arcana works if you want to beat them.

I don't think there is any better Cygnar drop than B3 wgk we can possibly have. As for being outgunned, nothing outguns 9 rockets for their points. Just don't forget to take field gun so they can hit, I notice you haven't yet.

I think CoC is where Karchev should shine. Their annoying 2x Tep + servitor list negate winter guard shooting quite hard so you're left with too much work for B3 to do. Meanwhile having bunch of jacks to trade into his huge bases on feat turn seems good.

Last Edit: Aug 17, 2017 14:33:36 GMT by smoothcriminal

spacecowboy55 Baby's First Wargame Posts: 6	Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 15:10:56 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by spacecowboy55 on Aug 17, 2017 15:10:56 GMT Hey armchair,are you roaming the dealer hall or are you getting in some practice before tommorow?

Armchair Warrior
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,354

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 16:03:56 GMT via mobile

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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 17, 2017 16:03:56 GMT

Aug 17, 2017 15:10:56 GMT spacecowboy55 said:

Hey armchair,are you roaming the dealer hall or are you getting in some practice before tommorow?

I just bought Old Witch 2 at the booth! Omg the model is bonkers good. I am going to do a bit more of there dealer hall, get some lunch, then grab a couple of games at the Iron Arena before dinner.

PM me if you want to meet up for a game.

kaos Junior Strategist Posts: 268	Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 17, 2017 16:57:01 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by kaos on Aug 17, 2017 16:57:01 GMT Good luck!

Cirga
Read Page 5

Posts: 27

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 18, 2017 11:22:25 GMT

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Post by Cirga on Aug 18, 2017 11:22:25 GMT

Good luck, and when in doubt just drop whichever list you're most comfortable playing. Also, be sure to ask your opponent about their threat ranges. Some may try to be cagey and not be fully honest, or just give you their cards, but plenty of others will let you know what they can do.

Last Edit: Aug 23, 2017 12:25:26 GMT by Cirga

zeffid Junior Strategist Posts: 163	Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 23, 2017 8:48:32 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by zeffid on Aug 23, 2017 8:48:32 GMT So how did it go?
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Armchair Warrior
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,354

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 24, 2017 1:47:49 GMT

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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 24, 2017 1:47:49 GMT

I'll post a longer note later, but in summary:

I finished 15th out of 32 in the Masters qualifying round. My notable loss against Jason Watt playing Grymkin. Double threat! It was a bit like playing pickup hoops against Michael Jordan.

Overall for the weekend, including Iron Arena games, I went 4-2. (I took home two free wall templates!)

I had a $h!t ton of fun. And I learned a lot...especially from the games I lost.

I bought Old Witch 2 on prerelease...omfg the model is gorgeous! (And now I can't stop making OW2 lists. It's a real problem...)

Last Edit: Aug 24, 2017 1:48:57 GMT by Armchair Warrior

Rowdy Dragon
The Sky Fell

Not Haley 2

Posts: 1,874

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 24, 2017 2:08:00 GMT

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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 24, 2017 2:08:00 GMT

Aug 24, 2017 1:47:49 GMT Armchair Warrior said:

I'll post a longer note later, but in summary:

I finished 15th out of 32 in the Masters qualifying round. My notable loss against Jason Watt playing Grymkin. Double threat! It was a bit like playing pickup hoops against Michael Jordan.

Overall for the weekend, including Iron Arena games, I went 4-2. (I took home two free wall templates!)

I had a $h!t ton of fun. And I learned a lot...especially from the games I lost.

I bought Old Witch 2 on prerelease...omfg the model is gorgeous! (And now I can't stop making OW2 lists. It's a real problem...)

Make sure to reinforce her legs before assembly. Like multiple times from multiple angles with allot of brass rods.

Free Burgers.

Armchair Warrior
The Sky Fell

Posts: 1,354

Butterflies in my battleaxe Aug 24, 2017 2:14:19 GMT

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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 24, 2017 2:14:19 GMT

Aug 24, 2017 2:08:00 GMT Rowdy Dragon said:

Aug 24, 2017 1:47:49 GMT Armchair Warrior said:

I'll post a longer note later, but in summary:

I finished 15th out of 32 in the Masters qualifying round. My notable loss against Jason Watt playing Grymkin. Double threat! It was a bit like playing pickup hoops against Michael Jordan.

Overall for the weekend, including Iron Arena games, I went 4-2. (I took home two free wall templates!)

I had a $h!t ton of fun. And I learned a lot...especially from the games I lost.

I bought Old Witch 2 on prerelease...omfg the model is gorgeous! (And now I can't stop making OW2 lists. It's a real problem...)

Make sure to reinforce her legs before assembly. Like multiple times from multiple angles with allot of brass rods.

I heard that from another player too. He recommended warming them in very hot water then flash freezing in ice water. I'll add the rods too on your say so. Easy to do up front.

Butterflies in my battleaxe

Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 17, 2017 2:31:37 GMT

Post by kovnikninehouse on Aug 17, 2017 3:01:49 GMT

Post by Netherby on Aug 17, 2017 5:24:18 GMT

Post by leotherat on Aug 17, 2017 12:22:50 GMT

Post by kovnikninehouse on Aug 17, 2017 12:48:43 GMT

Post by cageyj0nny on Aug 17, 2017 13:33:25 GMT

Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 17, 2017 14:32:22 GMT

Post by spacecowboy55 on Aug 17, 2017 15:10:56 GMT

Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 17, 2017 16:03:56 GMT

Post by kaos on Aug 17, 2017 16:57:01 GMT

Post by Cirga on Aug 18, 2017 11:22:25 GMT

Post by zeffid on Aug 23, 2017 8:48:32 GMT

Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 24, 2017 1:47:49 GMT

Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 24, 2017 2:08:00 GMT

Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 24, 2017 2:14:19 GMT