3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post)

jonnyboy
Junior Strategist

Posts: 637

3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 16, 2017 3:35:41 GMT via mobile

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Post by jonnyboy on Aug 16, 2017 3:35:41 GMT

I'll be going to my third tournament here next weekend. So far my track record isn't to hot. I've been struggling against menoth a lot. Choir list (8 of them) wrecked my irusk2, probably a bad match up as I hadn't played vs protectorate before. My butcher 1 list got wrecked by a infantry vengeance/angry zealot spam list. A lot of my other losses were due to scenario and poor placement of my caster.

I don't know the meta I'm going into, as this will be the third game store I've visited. I could use some help sharpening up my lists and coming up with some general strategy for what I want my lists to do.

I don't own;
-colossals
-Greylords of any kind
-doomn reavers
-battle engines
-marauders or any of the other low point jacks
-more than one IFPK + UA

Other than those I believe I have access to a large number of Khador models.

First list is my Butcher 1 list. I've become fairly comfortable in what this list offers and lacks (mostly speed) and tried to accommodate for it's downfalls. The list plays into attrition and scenario fairly well. I have a lot of hard targets to bring down and with B1 any one of them can hit like a truck. The kayazy do offer a bit of assassination play if the opponent is loose with their caster. I have been considering replacing a juggernaut with a kodiak, as pathfinder is something this list lacks. As well as swapping sylys for saxon, not sure what's better, focus on the efficiency or pathfinder.

War Room Army

Khador - Khador-O-War

Theme: No Theme Selected
74 / 75 Army

Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov - WJ: +28
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)

Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9
- Man-O-War Drakhun (Continued)
Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9
- Man-O-War Drakhun (Continued)
Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 5
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2

Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4

My second list has changed from tournament to tournament so far. Between irusk 1, irusk 2 with WGK, and now OW1. I felt irusk 2 performed alright, but had very obvious hard counters and played a similar game as my B1 list.

I've played a couple games with OW1 and i've started to enjoy her hijinks. My intent with her list is to go for the assassination and be a hard counter into infantry spam lists. The possibility of running behemoth with 2 forge seers seems like a must, magical weapons and P+S 16 gun shots. OW 1 providing apparition is also very enticing.

War Room Army

Khador - Shack In The Woods

Theme: Jaws of the Wolf
2 / 2 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army

The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +18
- Scrapjack
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Behemoth - PC: 25
- Destroyer - PC: 14

Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0

Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Assassins - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Kayazy Assassin Underboss - PC: 4

THEME: Jaws of the Wolf

I would be very appreciative of any advice and criticism.

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 16, 2017 12:47:43 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Aug 16, 2017 12:47:43 GMT

I am really happy to see you taking Old Witch (she's my favourite

).

The Butcher list seems pretty solid to me, though if you've got time to practice before the tournament I might suggest at least trying Saxon out. I have a feeling you are going to be happy with more access to pathfinder in this list. I was going to write that swapping a juggy for a kodiak would leave you one point up, but then I realized you were at 74/75. I would definitely recommend making this change - kodiaks are great in general, but love access to full throttle. The lesser damage compared to the juggernaut is probably something this list can deal with in exchange for the utility a kodiak would provide (clouds to block line of sight to butcher, pathfinder, longer charges, "free" power attacks etc).

I've never tried that many Kayazy with the old witch, but if I might suggest tweaking your list a bit. I have two comments:

1. Right now you've got 5 jacks on the Witch, which is cool because they all get apparition

. Unfortunately she usually wants to be spending her focus on other things. The Greylord forge seer can help with this, but I might suggest going a step further and giving him one of the jacks, perhaps destroyer (or if you had a second forge seer, behemoth).

2. This one is more on the "something to consider" front. I usually like to have a source of clouds in my old witch list (after all, Zevanna is not the most durable old lady out there). With what you own, I am struggling to find a way to fit a kodiak into your list - but it's definitely my first instinct.

Good luck with the tournament!

borderprince
Junior Strategist

Posts: 974

3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 16, 2017 13:16:20 GMT

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Post by borderprince on Aug 16, 2017 13:16:20 GMT

Butcher1 List
Definitely try Saxon instead of Sylys. It will doubtless be annoying at times, but there are occasions you need Pathfinder, and only Ruin has it at present (I've run something similar with Uhlans rather than Drakhuns for that reason).

Such a pity there's no wriggle room for Ragman, as he would make it a terrifying anti-armor list...

I think the Kodiak switch probably depends on which list you tend to run as the more generalist and more frequently used. If Butcher1 is the preferred anti-armor drop, then a Juggernaut can be stronger (although 1 Juggernaut, Ruin + Fury is usually enough for most colossals). But the Kodiak gives a bit more utility, which can be helpful in scenario.

OW1 List
I like it, but agree with moving a jack to the Forgeseer. Personal preference is the Destroyer - Behemoth + Apparition is potentially rather nice, and I am always worried about putting a 25 point jack on a not too tough solo. Also, with only one Forgeseer you can't fully load Behemoth without power-up focus.

Just to mention that this is quite similar to a Zerkova1 list I've run and enjoyed - should you want to try another caster with it, she's worth a shot.

jonnyboy
Junior Strategist

Posts: 637

3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 16, 2017 17:37:09 GMT via mobile

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Post by jonnyboy on Aug 16, 2017 17:37:09 GMT

Thanks for the advice guys.

As for my butcher 1 list. I use to include ragman and he almost always performed well. I believe i dropped him and orrin midwinter for a second MOW drakhun. I'm going to go with kodiak instead of two juggernauts, if i need him to hit hard he can, no doubt. I plan for the B1 to be my general 'all comers' list.

The tournament is the 26th, so I'm going to play around with saxon. I've bit the bullet before because my MOW getting caught in forests.

I've been thinking about switching the WWM for a second forge seer. Would you recommend this? I would most likely put the destroyer on the jack marshal.

The OW list has a spare point as well. Would you recommend swapping a juggy for a kodiak?

Last Edit: Aug 16, 2017 17:44:49 GMT by jonnyboy

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 16, 2017 18:38:04 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Aug 16, 2017 18:38:04 GMT

Aug 16, 2017 17:37:09 GMT jonnyboy said:

Been thinking about switching the WWM for a second forge seer. Would you recommend this? I would most likely put the destroyer on the jack marshal.

The OW list has a spare point as well. Would you recommend swapping a juggy for a kodiak?

Alright, I'll address these one at a time:

1. I'd say that depends on what the Widowmaker marksman is there to do in your list. A second Forge Seer will help with focus, definitely. Though this is somewhat complicated by the fact that the marksman can do some things the forge seer can't always, like sit back and capture flags while still doing his job. I am finding SR 2017 to be much more of scenario game than SR 2016 was, so this might be something to consider. I am not sure there is a right answer to this question. But I definitely approve of moving the destroyer to the forge seer (destroyers on forge seers has been the new hotness for me of late). Though I suppose a forge seer on a destroyer could also hang back... hmm

2. Normally I would say yes emphatically (I often bring two kodiaks with the witch). However here it looks like a lot of the anti-armor potential in your list is coming from your jacks, so you may want to keep the harder hitting power offered by the extra juggy. I know you'd normally drop your butcher list when you were expecting armor, but times bad matchups happen and I would probably lean towards having some extra armor cracking potential just to be safe.

Feel free to ignore me if you disagree

jonnyboy
Junior Strategist

Posts: 637

3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 16, 2017 22:17:22 GMT via mobile

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Post by jonnyboy on Aug 16, 2017 22:17:22 GMT

Won't be ignoring your advice! In my OW1 list the WWM was put in to diversify the list. He could become very useful in a scenario, where as a destroyer and forge seer could do a similar job at +14 points.

Im not sure about the kodiak vs juggy, my juggernauts are a big portion of my armor piercing. OW can also hand out pathfinder need be. While the kodiak would add some utility and defensive capabilities.

benjamini Junior Strategist Posts: 245	3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 17, 2017 20:34:55 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by benjamini on Aug 17, 2017 20:34:55 GMT Let me know how it works out!

jonnyboy
Junior Strategist

Posts: 637

3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 18, 2017 0:54:45 GMT via mobile

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Post by jonnyboy on Aug 18, 2017 0:54:45 GMT

Aug 17, 2017 20:34:55 GMT benjamini said:

Let me know how it works out!

Will do, i might even write a battle report if I have the mind to remember. Really hoping I win, as the prize is a warnoun kit! Hello second kodiak or grolar

If anyone is interested I think these are the final two lists. Sylys might still turn into a saxon.

War Room Army

Khador - Khador-O-War

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army

Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov - WJ: +28
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Kodiak - PC: 13

Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9
- Man-O-War Drakhun (Continued)
Man-O-War Drakhun - PC: 9
- Man-O-War Drakhun (Continued)
Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 5
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2

Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4

War Room Army

Khador - Shack In The Woods

Theme: Jaws of the Wolf
2 / 2 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army

The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +18
- Scrapjack
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Behemoth - PC: 25

Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
- Destroyer - PC: 14
Widowmaker Marksman - PC: 0

Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Assassins - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Kayazy Assassin Underboss - PC: 4

THEME: Jaws of the Wolf

benjamini Junior Strategist Posts: 245	3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 18, 2017 13:09:32 GMT kaos likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by benjamini on Aug 18, 2017 13:09:32 GMT Lookin' good! (Still putting in my recommendation for Saxon though, but Sylys is no slouch either)

benjamini
Junior Strategist

Posts: 245

3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post) Aug 23, 2017 12:57:58 GMT

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Post by benjamini on Aug 23, 2017 12:57:58 GMT

If I remember correctly the tournament was last weekend.

How did it go? Hope you had fun (and maybe brought some glory to the Motherland whilst at it)!

Edit: wait, nevermind. You said it's on the 26th Ooops, can't read.

Last Edit: Aug 23, 2017 12:59:05 GMT by benjamini: Correction

3rd tournament coming up, need help (Long Post)

Post by jonnyboy on Aug 16, 2017 3:35:41 GMT

Post by benjamini on Aug 16, 2017 12:47:43 GMT

Post by borderprince on Aug 16, 2017 13:16:20 GMT

Post by jonnyboy on Aug 16, 2017 17:37:09 GMT

Post by benjamini on Aug 16, 2017 18:38:04 GMT

Post by jonnyboy on Aug 16, 2017 22:17:22 GMT

Post by benjamini on Aug 17, 2017 20:34:55 GMT

Post by jonnyboy on Aug 18, 2017 0:54:45 GMT

Post by benjamini on Aug 18, 2017 13:09:32 GMT

Post by benjamini on Aug 23, 2017 12:57:58 GMT