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Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 14, 2017 14:41:47 GMT
As said above Strakhov's feat doesn't give them free charge.
Otherwise yes, if caster can provide free charge and threat specifically in form of Boundless charge, marshalling melee jack significantly improves it's capabilities over not marshalling it.
The problem is that the only casters with Boundless are Sorschas, B2 and V1. Out of those only Sorschas don't want the said jack in their bg, and Sorschas don't like playing jaws. And B2 isn't really a tournament-tier caster. V1 can marshall, but then you're better with marshalling Destroyers since S&P is so good there.
Maybe when koldun theme releases S1 can pull it off.
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Post by gribble on Aug 14, 2017 14:48:54 GMT
The problem is that the only casters with Boundless are Sorschas, B2 and V1. Ahem...  |
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Post by auraco on Aug 14, 2017 14:48:56 GMT
Make it single target or jack only. But at the moment it's not like ayana and holt are a popular choice... they can't be taken in theme and our theme severely lack magic weapon, and PP has stated that they want the game to be played in theme forces.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Aug 14, 2017 14:54:23 GMT
Well technically she's not legal. Totally forgot about her though. OW2 is probably the best for this. She has no reason to keep excessive jacks in her battlegroup and her kit synergizes well with marshalling. Boundless + Curse + Empower with a marshalled juggy will one round a heavy and it even punches through upkeeps. |
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Post by gribble on Aug 14, 2017 15:01:51 GMT
Well technically she's not legal. Totally forgot about her though. OW2 is probably the best for this. She has no reason to keep excessive jacks in her battlegroup and her kit synergizes well with marshalling. Boundless + Curse + Empower with a marshalled juggy will one round a heavy and it even punches through upkeeps. Yep, that's pretty much what I was thinking. With crush, you're looking at charge, plus two additional effective P+S 23 magical, blessed attacks. |
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Post by Netherby on Aug 14, 2017 21:36:21 GMT
Well, there are a few things to consider here. First is that Forge Seers aren't really seen outside JotW lists, but there is almost always two of them in a JotW list due to there being no competing options. The question is probably less should you marshal with a Seer, and more should you do it in JotW? Since they will be in the list any way, the extra cost of the Seers becomes irrelevant.
-Your fully loaded jack makes 3 attacks with its primary weapon (4 with a free charge).
-Your double empowered crusher jack makes 3 attacks with its primary weapon (4 with a free charge).
So the marshalled jack does more damage in both scenarios thanks to the +2. Unless your caster has a battle group only free charge (which a few do), then you only gain by marshalling. Even in the case where your battle group jack gets the free charge and the marshalled one does not, the marshalled jack can still break even. It comes down to the average damage you're doing per hit.
For example if you are doing an average of 4 damage per hit (so the marshalled jack will be doing 6), the marshalled jack on average will do an extra 2 damage with its 3 attacks compared to the battle group jacks 4 attacks.
This means basically you should always have a jack on a Forge Seer in JotW IF you are taking the two Seers as your free cards.
It won't always be better, but it will be BETTER in so many situations that it is 100% worth having. We haven't even considered that you get to ignore Arm buffs and the like in these calculations or that your caster invested no focus in these attacks.
The only real strong down side pops up when you face a bunch of knock down, stationary, blind, etc effects or when an opponent can easily remove the Seers.
If you are paying points for the Seers and Malakov is an available option, then he is half the cost while proving the +2 damage AND free charge AND 3 focus. Pretty hard for them to ever compete with that.
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Post by gobber on Aug 14, 2017 23:11:29 GMT
Well technically she's not legal. Totally forgot about her though. The model was available at Lock and Load, so she's legal based on your proximity to Washington. Here in Portland there are a few people that already have her... |
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496 
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Post by Growl on Aug 15, 2017 0:55:48 GMT
I think Vlad1 is a great Jaws caster for a melee marshaled jack, Signs and Portents and Boundless Charge work great! Though I think Behemoth is an even better choice for the Seers, you don't want him leading the way anyway.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 15, 2017 6:12:07 GMT
It won't always be better, but it will be BETTER in so many situations that it is 100% worth having. I agree with everything you said, with the two caveats: 1. If your caster only has speed buffs for his battlegroup, then taking a melee-only jack without access to those buffs is hard to justify, it feels more natural to take something with a gyn in that sitiation. 2. If your caster has NO warjack speed buffs, then as you said marshaling will often be better if the seers are free, BUT I would still be tempted to take gun jacks rather than melee-only jacks, plus you might just be better off taking more infantry and just using the free seers purely for empowering the gun jacks you brought with your warjack points. I guess I just keep coming back to not seeing taking melee-only jacks as being optimal without some way of speeding them up, marshaled or not. |
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 15, 2017 6:46:16 GMT
I think (strangely) the best jack to Marshall on a FS is a destroyer.
Long range gun so you can get then most out of Take Aim! And arcing fire so less moving, and they can also hit pretty hard in melee.
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Post by borderprince on Aug 15, 2017 7:07:15 GMT
I think (strangely) the best jack to Marshall on a FS is a destroyer. Long range gun so you can get then most out of Take Aim! And arcing fire so less moving, and they can also hit pretty hard in melee. Yes - I've enjoyed two of them in a Zerkova1 JoW list. I prefer two Destroyers to Behemoth simply as you get many more boxes on the field. |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Aug 15, 2017 11:47:05 GMT
Try a destroyer on a forge seer in an Irusk2 JotW list, it's great! Stick Fire For Effect on it and have the forge seer empower Behemoth, who's in Irusk's battlegroup  Cheers, Dave |
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Aug 15, 2017 12:21:50 GMT
How about Forge seer+Drago+Superiority+Blizzard = DEF15 vs melee, DEF17 vs ranged and magic and can run for free.
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Post by leotherat on Aug 15, 2017 12:29:36 GMT
If you mean winter's wind then that can not go on Drago. He doesn't have cold immunity.
Why not put the destroyer on I2 and Behemoth on the forge seer? Then you put FFE on Behemoth and the seer empowers him as well. You get the same hit/damage effects but now you get 2 magic+blessed AoEs instead of 1.
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Post by auraco on Aug 15, 2017 12:51:36 GMT
But if you do that the destroyer doesn't get all boosted, with thebuoyancyofwater's setup you get all the bombard shots boosted to hit and damage, with your setup only the behemoth gets the all boosted thing, Irusk's destroyer is left with only power up to boost.
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