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Post by auraco on Aug 14, 2017 1:10:58 GMT
Have you done it? Did you find it good. I'm asking since I was pretty much against the idea when I saw the forge seer's rules and I'm really still not convinced it's the right choice in any list, but I've ran a maraudeur on a forge seer in a Strakhov1 jaws of the wolf army for 5 games now, and it's turning out surprisingly well so far. I'm probably repeating myself by now with this list: Jaws of the wolf Strakhov1 Behemoth Grolar Torch Juggernaut Maraudeur Forge seer Maraudeur Forge seer Marksman Eliminators Eliminators
I was also able to live the dream today for the first time, charging the marshalled maraudeur on the feat turn on a woldwrath on baldur2's root of the earth feat. The Strakhov's feat feels very clutch for that to work, when used right the maraudeur becomes a 10 point bullet, with two empower and crush it means 5 magical attack at pow 18 with seige weapon, so enough to kill or severely damage heavies and gargossals, and probably kill any battle engine. It's also a module that doesn't take any focus from Strakhov, since focus efficiency is not exactly a thing in khador it's the closest thing we've got I guess. Strakhov also already has enough jacks to fuel and enough to play with overrun than the sixth jack being marshalled doesn't really get in the way of his overrun game. I'm not sure I'd like to stick a melee jack on a forge seer on any other caster though, but I'm now more open to the idea than before since I've seen it work in this list. Has anyone tried it in an other list and get it to work.
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Post by Netherby on Aug 14, 2017 1:32:27 GMT
I think it is a pretty decent choice to put a cheap melee jack on them. Of course it all depends on the rest of your list.
Obvious choices are Marauders and Kodiaks.
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Post by borderprince on Aug 14, 2017 5:19:03 GMT
Crush makes a big difference to effectiveness, as does Empower. But you really need some way to get the marshalled jack to have both crush and a charge, ideally without using any of the Empower focus. That points to casters with Boundless Charge or another route to free charges, such as Strakhov1's feat.
In the abstract, the difficult question with a pure melee jack is whether a Forgeseer marshalling the jack is better than Malakov1 running it. Malakov1 also gives +2 to damage via Redline and can give free charges and gives a movement buff and can still fully load the jack. A Forgeseer will need to bring a friend to get close to the same focus and still hopes for free charges from somewhere. Blessed does give an effective further damage buff in some situations too.
So the only reasons for a Forgeseer on a pure melee jack look to be situational: (1) Availability of Malakov1 in themes; (2) Desirability of magical weapons. Ghost Fleet is currently a bogeyman, so this can be a big one, but not in both lists in a pairing; (3) Desirability of blessed weapons. Can be quite handy against Cygnar and some other lists (Baldur2 as a good example).
For both (2) and (3), I think they point to the Marauder as the best choice. Huge bases are its preferred target, and it outperforms the Juggernaut against them. At present, the huge bases to worry about the most seem to be the Wraith Engine and the usual arcane shielded Cygnaran colossal. Magical weapons lets a marshalled Marauder go up against the Wraith Engine in Ghost Fleet/Dark Host, while Blessed is handy against things like an Arcane Shielded colossal. If the preferred targets aren't present, combo-smite is always handy to have around and requires no focus input, letting you cast Empower on other jacks.
The Kodiak also does well without much focus, but doesn't benefit as much from magical or blessed weapons as it doesn't hit as hard against some targets.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 14, 2017 7:03:07 GMT
Just FYI, Strakhov's feat only gives free charges to battlegroup warjacks.
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Post by auraco on Aug 14, 2017 9:29:02 GMT
Just FYI, Strakhov's feat only gives free charges to battlegroup warjacks. Damn I totally missed that, and damn that sucks, it makes the marshalled jack less efficient, having one less attack on can mean a lot. So I'm guessing other options would be boundless charge casters.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 14, 2017 9:37:36 GMT
Damn I totally missed that, and damn that sucks, it makes the marshalled jack less efficient, having one less attack on can mean a lot. So I'm guessing other options would be boundless charge casters. Yeah, I was quite upset back in MkII when I realised that the Hoff wasn't supposed to be giving my MOW Kovnik-marshalled Destroyer a free charge after all. Not sure why PP felt the need to put so much more effort into the feat wording just to limit it in that way, either in MkII or MkIII; marshaled Khador jacks have never been anywhere close to OP. Having said that, you still get the extra 4", which is quite important for our SPD 4 jacks. I still wouldn't take a pure melee jack on a marshal though in a Strak list; without some source of free charges it just doesn't feel worth it to me.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 14, 2017 10:37:21 GMT
Having a jack with a free charge seems to be the Holy Grail of Marshalled melee warjacks, hence why the Iron Lich Seether in Cryx has such crazy damage output. The easiest way would probably be to take a caster with Boundless Charge, that way you get 2 initial attacks, the crush attack, and up to 2 more from Empower, all at +2 damage and blessed
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 14, 2017 11:33:19 GMT
Yeah, that's one reason why the Berserker used to be an option in MkII: cheap (for MkII), Agressive for free charges, and the Kovnik could fix his low MAT issue. Now? Outside of Boundless Charge casters the only thing I can think of that we can brign in Khador is the Mangler, who might be an option for dealing with shield walls thanks to his Reach Chain-Weapon Thresher (that can be MAT 8 or P+S 20 even when charging). Maybe. Probably not.
Or I guess clamjacks just to stand there.
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Post by narvt86 on Aug 14, 2017 11:40:17 GMT
i like the idea of the jack marchall kodiak , and forge seer 2x, but 21 point to get a combo with boundless charge, its alot of point to get maybe 1 strike for 21 point take beast 09 hes the same prize and hes always awesome.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 14, 2017 12:09:07 GMT
i like the idea of the jack marchall kodiak , and forge seer 2x, but 21 point to get a combo with boundless charge, its alot of point to get maybe 1 strike for 21 point take beast 09 hes the same prize and hes always awesome. If you can get those Forge Seers for free in theme then it becomes more appealing
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 14, 2017 12:28:46 GMT
But we haven't got too many warcasters who want jaws and have boundless charge.
It works for me with B2 and Marshalled destroyers. They hit as hard as juggernauts.
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Post by auraco on Aug 14, 2017 12:57:02 GMT
Yeah marshalling feels awkward at times, especially for melee jacks since our jack casters mostly don't have boundless charges. It works out well enough with Strakhov1 in jaws but I can't think of anyone else. We might be able to get some changes to that during the man o war CiD since the Forge Seer is a man o war model. Am I the only one who feels lile the Forge Seer is a clunky and awkward model to use?
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 14, 2017 13:06:14 GMT
I only use him as a power bot, and he is exactly fast enough to do that job.
I do think his magic attacks should be a spell. I'd even consider losing blessed for it.
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Post by auraco on Aug 14, 2017 13:28:53 GMT
Having the magic attack thing be a spell is exactly what we would need, it would allow casters with battlegoup stuff to get access to magic attack without losing on the battlegroup stuff and going through the awkwardness of jack marshalling.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 14, 2017 13:52:55 GMT
Well, that would even further invalidate A&H.
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