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Post by vakruz on Aug 7, 2017 18:00:51 GMT
So just because i'm mostly curious : How difficult is it to find people who don't "always" only want to play 75 point steamroller lists? In my meta, if you ask someone not to, it throws them for a complete loop list building wise, and only my close circle of peeps will even bother to play small games. How common is this? And why? Just trying to understand if its just my area, or others as well. I've been told repeatably- "Come back when you have a real list that's a normal game size", and it kinda puts me off from the game.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 7, 2017 18:04:13 GMT
Are you a new player? Players in my meta are pretty cool about playing small games with newer players with smaller collections.
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Post by vakruz on Aug 7, 2017 18:07:18 GMT
Not at all actually, been playing for 3 years, it just feels sometimes, i dont always want to play "normal games", and want a change of pace for a bit. But driving an hour one way kinda sucks to get bored and give up seeing the exact same lists month after month, I;m just in a slump i guess  |
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Post by copperflame on Aug 7, 2017 18:09:36 GMT
Any other meta's available? Even at 50points - you may still see the same lists just omitting a troop selection.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685 
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Post by Cyel on Aug 7, 2017 18:12:26 GMT
The most popular in my group is certainly 75pts, second most often played is 150pts, often doubles or 1vs2. I don't really enjoy smaller games as with less options and less balance they are much less interesting for me. I wish tournament standard was 100pts for exactly this reason  |
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Post by vakruz on Aug 7, 2017 18:13:25 GMT
Sadly no, only other group in my state is another 35 minutes away. Sorry if this makes anyone mad, but ive been really passionate about this game for a long time, and just needed to vent a tad i guess. I've had an itch to play rumble games lately and have trouble getting a single game most of the time, which really sucks.
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Post by copperflame on Aug 7, 2017 18:18:15 GMT
I have yet to try - but I want to leverage Vassel for such cases.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 7, 2017 18:20:01 GMT
One thing we've done in my meta is multiplayer games. Last week there was a 3v3 game (Cryx, Khador, and Rhulic V.S. Gators, Circle, and Legion). They all had battlebox armies. It was pretty cool.
Do you have any tournament organizer for the store? Maybe you could try and get a "who's the boss?" Tourney, or FoodMachine, or double caster.
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Post by vakruz on Aug 7, 2017 18:27:36 GMT
That'd be kinda fun actually, been awhile since I've played double casters though. Really enjoyed it when we've played it in the past, thanks for the ideas. Was just feeling in the dumps I guess after this past weekend
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 7, 2017 20:45:10 GMT
Yeah like I'm sure people will be down to play 50 points if they didn't have to suddenly create a compelling new list. In my phone i have like 10 75 point lists and maybe 1 50 point one
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 7, 2017 20:51:59 GMT
I've had an itch to play rumble games lately and have trouble getting a single game most of the time, which really sucks. Well, thats probably because most people have realized how hideously unbalanced Rumble is, and that makes it seriously not fun to play. I personally loath it. And anytime someone comes all wide eyed wanting a rumble game I play a game with them. I drop vindictus and flamebringers. They learn their lesson and we never have to speak of it again |
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Aug 7, 2017 22:10:59 GMT
I think there are multiple things going on here.
1. 75 points is the standard for competitive play and a lot of things, so people come with 75 point lists. If someone wants to play at a lower points level, that may send anyone scrambling to war room to build a list if they don't have other point level lists saved in there.
2. There are some balance issues at certain point levels and on a smaller board. These issues stem from either some casters bringing so much personal power that in a low-points game they can single-handedly kill everything on the board, or they can facetank so much that at a small points level, it is difficult to put them in the dirt. Whereas other casters which primarily support their army have less of an army to support and may struggle. Rumble is a decent casual format, but it can be bad for this if you're playing against highly competitive players, because with the small board size, you could end up in a situation where you come on the board and literally nowhere is safe from being assassinated right off the bat because the opponent has something that can reach out and kill you from 29" away in their list.
3. Unfortunately, it feels like Warmachine and the community as a whole are going down a path whereby it is all about standard, 75-point steamrollers and nothing matters but competitive play in a standard format. I've seen people locally and on the internet basically state that if it's not a practice game under these standard conditions, it's a waste of time. This, along with the huge amounts of negativity mostly online, is what is threatening Warmachine. Perhaps you could get around it by organizing fun events such as Summer Rampage, or promoting scenarios from NQ or the ones from the Grymkin book, and hopefully someone will be interested rather than wanting to play their 8000th Steamroller game?
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Post by Blargaliscious on Aug 7, 2017 23:08:09 GMT
So just because i'm mostly curious : How difficult is it to find people who don't "always" only want to play 75 point steamroller lists? In my meta, if you ask someone not to, it throws them for a complete loop list building wise, and only my close circle of peeps will even bother to play small games. How common is this? And why? Just trying to understand if its just my area, or others as well. I've been told repeatably- "Come back when you have a real list that's a normal game size", and it kinda puts me off from the game. Sounds like you have a bunch of "serious fun gamers" who are seriously no fun. Warmachine does not equal Steam Roller. Warmachine and Hordes is what you make of it, Steam Roller is merely the tournament format. As a wonderful, and very dear, friend of mine here on these forums pointed out to me, SR is a driver of better balance and a tighter product coming out of Privateer Press. And after some thought I have to say that I agree with him. But when people think that there is no Warmachine and Hordes outside of Steam Roller, well, I think that's when the loud and nasty name calling should start. You could also try starting a Journeyman league - see if you can get players to either invest in the Mk3 battlebox for their faction if they haven't already, or getting people to try starting up a new faction as a side project. If your store owner has some display space it might help spur greater interest.) You already know that the first several weeks are going to be a lot of small games. You could also hold "buy-in" tournaments where the entrance fee goes towards the prizes. (Check with the store owner if he will kick in some prize support.) The trick is to make the requirements for the army composition such that nobody can realistically test their SR armies. There was a tournament I was in back in Mk2 where it was an odd points level (80 points =?= 140 points in Mk3), you had to have 2 casters where they were different versions of the same caster (I had Lylyth1 and Lylyth2) and you had to have at least one colossal / gargantuan. I think they called it "Double Trouble, Go Big Or Go Home." Make the requirements (or allowances) interesting enough you might be able to peel off some tournament gamers also. If you want to play interesting and different games of Warmahordes you (and maybe some like-minded friends) will have to exert some leadership and imagination to stir people up. Pre-planning and advertising helps also. Do it, you might in the end make your local meta even stronger than it is now. |
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 8, 2017 0:39:06 GMT
I might have to agree with brag.
There are plenty of non steam roller even formats that are pretty fun. There are also a bunch of shitty ones. * cough cough* rumble *cough*
I'm a fan of whose the boss. I'm actually genuinely excited for my local EO to ruin the next one.
Journey leagues are ok but i don't like them really.
They don't work as well as i would like them to. Like you kind of make your final list at the beginning and try and figure out how to get there through out the weeks. Is meh
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Post by gobber on Aug 8, 2017 0:55:41 GMT
I tend to get off work late enough that it's sometimes difficult to finish a 75pt game before the store closes. It isn't terribly difficult to find a 35 to 50 point game in those situations. In my meta you would get a bit of side eye if you're not able to make a smaller list on the fly for a casual game night (a proxy or two would be fine/expected). Only time you get the 75 or go home thing is if there's a tourney that weekend people are explicitly practicing for.
I also have a board at home on which I always have a 35 point game going against myself. The point is to learn new casters, model interactions, activation orders, etc, so the faster turn time lets me get more of these tests in. Also helps me finish the games in less than a week... Certain casters do perform far better in the low point environment (Helga, Thags1, Gore1, etc) but it's still helpful to run them on a smaller scale a couple times before playing a 75pt match against another person
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