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Post by auraco on Aug 5, 2017 14:55:49 GMT
Don't you have a Butcher2 / Jaws of the Wolf army list you were working on? You mean my 100% win record jaws of the wolf B2 that I had to stop playing because all my meta complained? Yeah I do actually. ... Not sure if serious or not...
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 5, 2017 14:59:29 GMT
I am actually. It was really good.
Butcher just sat back and camped, occasionally putting out boundless charge or Fury.
Then I'd send in a Grolar with 3 rage tokens and win the game.
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Post by auraco on Aug 5, 2017 15:04:46 GMT
I am actually. It was really good. Butcher just sat back and camped, occasionally putting out boundless charge or Fury. Then I'd send in a Grolar with 3 rage tokens and win the game. What's the exact list, and people really complained that it was too good?
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 5, 2017 15:40:32 GMT
I am actually. It was really good. Butcher just sat back and camped, occasionally putting out boundless charge or Fury. Then I'd send in a Grolar with 3 rage tokens and win the game. What's the exact list, and people really complained that it was too good? It was. Butcher2 -War Dog -Ruin -Juggernaut -Juggernaut -Kodiak -Grolar Greylord Forge Seer -Destroyer Greylord Forge Seer -Destroyer Widowmaker Marksman Battle Mechanics And it wasn't that it was too good (but it was a hard list to crack) but it was so janky that it was hard to deal with. Provided you can stop Butcher from rolling 1s for focus multiple turns in a row you had enough focus to put out the boundless charge and fury that he wants. And then you need to get a good feat turn and you use Rage Tokens as makeshift focus. Plus my meta can be quite infantry heavy. Butcher loves that.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Aug 5, 2017 19:37:55 GMT
Don't you have a Butcher2 / Jaws of the Wolf army list you were working on? You mean my 100% win record jaws of the wolf B2 that I had to stop playing because all my meta complained? Yeah I do actually. So pretty much your opponents would provide you with enough victims infantry for B2 to mulch through that you could run your jacks hot? Nice!
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 5, 2017 20:52:27 GMT
You mean my 100% win record jaws of the wolf B2 that I had to stop playing because all my meta complained? Yeah I do actually. So pretty much your opponents would provide you with enough victims infantry for B2 to mulch through that you could run your jacks hot? Nice! Well 3 will do. A khador Jack with 6 effective focus is a game ender.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Aug 5, 2017 21:27:09 GMT
So pretty much your opponents would provide you with enough victims infantry for B2 to mulch through that you could run your jacks hot? Nice! Well 3 will do. A khador Jack with 6 effective focus is a game ender. Ahhh... With this insight, that it doesn't take a giant pile of bodies, but merely a small pile of bodies on feat turn, a well-placed jack or two, and a couple of focus, that Blarg teeters off to a different part of the mountain top to contemplate. Blarg now delves into other great mysteries of life and new ways of killing enemies of the Motherland.
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Post by Havock on Aug 6, 2017 1:38:08 GMT
Mind posting that list Welsh?
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 6, 2017 2:00:51 GMT
Experienced LOS players - why aren't you including Vlad 1? Iron Fangs of every flavor appreciate S&P more than average due to the crit knockdown. Vlad likes any army with lots of models. Boundless charge is nifty. And... turn one just run Connie or Vicky full tilt and end on the 23" - 26" line...with a unit of Iron Fang! (Two actually including the Uhlans).
What about this?
War Room Army
Khador - V1L
Theme: Legion of Steel 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28 - Conquest - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28)
Uhlan Kovnik Markov - PC: 7 Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0 Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0
Iron Fang Pikemen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Black Dragons - Leader & 9 Grunts: 17 - Black Dragon Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 Great Bears of the Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, & Yarovich: 9 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20
If you win the die roll to go first, you opponent is just so screwed.
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Post by auraco on Aug 6, 2017 2:03:19 GMT
Mind posting that list Welsh? He just did, a couple of post ago. It's jaw of the wolf and not legion of steel, so not really on topic, but we did ask for the list, so no foul hijack play here if you ask me.
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Post by auraco on Aug 6, 2017 2:10:05 GMT
Experienced LOS players - why aren't you including Vlad 1? Iron Fangs of every flavor appreciate S&P more than average due to the crit knockdown. Vlad likes any army with lots of models. Boundless charge is nifty. And... turn one just run Connie or Vicky full tilt and end on the 23" - 26" line...with a unit of Iron Fang! (Two actually including the Uhlans). What about this? War Room Army Khador - V1L Theme: Legion of Steel 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28 - Conquest - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28) Uhlan Kovnik Markov - PC: 7 Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0 Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0 Iron Fang Pikemen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Black Dragons - Leader & 9 Grunts: 17 - Black Dragon Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 Great Bears of the Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, & Yarovich: 9 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 If you win the die roll to go first, you opponent is just so screwed. Honest opinion here, Vlad1 doesn't really help the pikemen get where they want to be, the best casters listed for legion of steel are Strakhov2, Irusk2 and Zerkova1, all 3 of these casters have tools to get the pikemen where they need to be, quicken, inviolable resolve, mission critical, artifice of deviation, solid ground, total obedience, freezin mist, howling winds. Iron fang are very strong offensive models with victim stats, Vlad1 helps their strength without helping them get to the enemy intact to actually use these awesome offensive stats. Haven't tried it with Vlad1 but I think my theoretical analysis is sound.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Aug 6, 2017 3:23:58 GMT
Experienced LOS players - why aren't you including Vlad 1? Iron Fangs of every flavor appreciate S&P more than average due to the crit knockdown. Vlad likes any army with lots of models. Boundless charge is nifty. And... turn one just run Connie or Vicky full tilt and end on the 23" - 26" line...with a unit of Iron Fang! (Two actually including the Uhlans). What about this? War Room Army Khador - V1L Theme: Legion of Steel 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28 - Conquest - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28) Uhlan Kovnik Markov - PC: 7 Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0 Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0 Iron Fang Pikemen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Black Dragons - Leader & 9 Grunts: 17 - Black Dragon Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 Great Bears of the Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, & Yarovich: 9 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 If you win the die roll to go first, you opponent is just so screwed. Honest opinion here, Vlad1 doesn't really help the pikemen get where they want to be, the best casters listed for legion of steel are Strakhov2, Irusk2 and Zerkova1, all 3 of these casters have tools to get the pikemen where they need to be, quicken, inviolable resolve, mission critical, artifice of deviation, solid ground, total obedience, freezin mist, howling winds. Iron fang are very strong offensive models with victim stats, Vlad1 helps their strength without helping them get to the enemy intact to actually use these awesome offensive stats. Haven't tried it with Vlad1 but I think my theoretical analysis is sound. Vlad1 has Wind Wall. So he and whatever squad he has decided he likes will look like a Tokyo subway station, but they will be relatively safe from non-magical ranged attacks. If he needs to get them upfield quickly he can also cast Blood of Kings for for +3 SPD. In the list above I would put the basic IFP in the Wind Wall, rely on Shield Wall + Iron Zeal to protect the Black Dragons for the turn before contact, and have Markov and the Uhlans swing *a little* wide and use terrain to minimize enemy fire. The Great Bears and the kovniks can hide behind the others or terrain until axe-time happens. At least that's what I would do if I was running Vlad1 in a basic Iron Fang list and I was super worried about shooting on the way in.
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Post by sand20go on Aug 6, 2017 4:24:16 GMT
Again, what tunes the LoS up to 11 is the fact that you have counter charging weaponmasters with precision strike AND reach with critical knockdown. Again, the caster that makes that combination simply SHINE is Strak2. It is important that one grasp that Last Stand _ONLY_ kills the models that make their melee attack. This gives you "options". So, for example, attack with your pikes. After one of them crits - STOP HITTING. You know have something valuable, without its cortex, knocked down and possibly out of Reach range. That is otherwise known as a paperweight.
Now other things do well. As pointed out, Irusks give out battle lust so that tunes up our Pikes. Z1 can put down a cloud wall and deliver a bunch. Butcher 2 is a neat idea - worth some serious experimenting with though I think he is better with Winter Guard - Something I very much intend to do against Grymkin (though sadly Heretic can not be knocked down).
Vlad 1 COULD deliver with S&P. The problem is that it won't be up on your contercharges (Fury and Last Stand, as upkeeps, would). Windwall delivery is "cute" but note, those are some TASTY pikes to be venomed, hellmouthed, or other nasty things. The reason that the Vlad1 limo works with doomies is the anti magic and denying LOS to Vlad. Still can be wrecked but harder.
If it rocks your boat play it. But Vlad1s best stuff is Jaws because of the feat, the meta, and how he plays so well as an attrition caster after you remove the threats and he can just start casting Might of Kings and rule the battlefied like the demi-god he is.
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Post by borderprince on Aug 6, 2017 4:48:06 GMT
Experienced LOS players - why aren't you including Vlad 1? Iron Fangs of every flavor appreciate S&P more than average due to the crit knockdown. S&P doesn't synergise that well with critical effects. Because you are required to drop the lowest dice, you can lose the double. I haven't worked out the probabilities, but I suspect that if S&P gives any advantage to obtaining criticals, it will only be a small one.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 6, 2017 13:34:45 GMT
Experienced LOS players - why aren't you including Vlad 1? Iron Fangs of every flavor appreciate S&P more than average due to the crit knockdown. S&P doesn't synergise that well with critical effects. Because you are required to drop the lowest dice, you can lose the double. I haven't worked out the probabilities, but I suspect that if S&P gives any advantage to obtaining criticals, it will only be a small one. I've seen a couple of posts on this showing the math and its better than you think. It comes down to the fact that you increase your odds of hitting with doubles you'll keep. This is a summary from Muse on Minis. Link! The latest murder of crows podcast has a really good section on signs and portents dice math that's towards the end of the episode. (That's episode 30.)
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