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Post by Armchair Warrior on Aug 2, 2017 14:00:24 GMT
So I wanted to start up a strategy discussion thread on OW2. I'm interested in your theory machine and playtest experience. 1. What list(s) are you trying and why? 2. Who do you think OW2 is good against? 3. What's your real world experience? 4. Who are you pairing her with, and why? I'm moving my response to Dave from another thread here: thebuoyancyofwater Dave, What's your OW2 build and who do you drop her into vs the butcher? Currently, it's this: Jaws of the WolfOld Witch 2 +27 -Conquest -37 -Behemoth -25 Widowmaker Marksman -0 Battle Mechaniks (Min) -3 -Battle Mechanik Officer -0 Kazay Assassins (Max) -15 -Underboss -4 Kayazy Eliminators -5 Kayazy Eliminators -5 Widowmaker Scouts -8 I've been pleased with it so far, the only issues have been me being too aggressive with Old Witch and so getting her killed. But that's part of learning a new caster I guess  She is playing into Warmachine, except Cryx, and Trolls at the moment. List might change up a little as I try different match ups. Behemoth with Reconstruct is a pain to deal with, and Windstorm has been solid for protecting the squishy models when required. A conquest with access to speed, damage and accuracy buffs who can be made very difficult to shoot is solid, plus Creeping Barrage adds extra control when you land a Black Wings and want to extend the amount of no. Widowmakers assist the jacks by either picking off survivors of their blasts or taking out individual pieces as required. Eliminators are excellent targets for 1-focus Boundless Charges and the assassins really like Curse of Shadows. Oh, finally, the mechanik officer has proved a surprise! I really like being able to spread the mechaniks out more, and his repair is excellent on top of that. With Windstorm, all the mechaniks are safe, so can play a little further up the field, which helps when Reconstruct inevitably triggers! Like I say, I'm still playing around a little with the list, but I like it for now. I've considered minimizing the assassins for Yuri, but having a full unit ensures there's still plenty around when the lines meet. Or, dropping them entirely for Yuri, some manhunters and some kossites, though I'm not convinced. Cheers, Dave Dave, regarding your set up, don't you think you're short changing yourself on the opportunity to abuse Power Magnifier with only 2 jacks? Also, I'd be afraid with so few heavies that someone can get a jack or beast with a damage buff onto Connie and pretty much one round it. That happened to me on one playtest with OW2 against a Minions list. My opponent got a Primaled, Raged beast onto me and it was bye-bye Connie. Also, when I build Jaws lists, I'm generally trying to get to get to 75 points for the 3rd free solo. If they let mercs back into our theme lists, Ragman is sick with the Conquest plus Curse of Shadows. This alone is worth taking it. I'll post a more fulsome review of my playtest experience and theorymachine later, but if I were to fit Connie into a Jaws list I would probably want to go Jack heavy. Maybe something like this... OW2, Wardog, Victor, Kodiak x2, Marauder x2, Manhunter x2, Yuri, Mechs (min), Eliminators 2X. I am still up in the air about Kossites (I need to test them). With the above list, you could easily drop the 2 Marauders, and add a Kodiak plus min Kossites. Now nearly everything in the list has pathfinder. That doesn't suck... OW2, Wardog, Victor, Kodiak x3, Manhunter x2, Yuri, Mechs (min), Eliminators 2X, Kossites (min). (Still gets 3 free dudes). |
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Post by Cryptix on Aug 2, 2017 15:50:58 GMT
I'm preparing for the Doom Reaver/Greylord theme force with:
Old Witch 2 (+27)
- Juggernaut
- Juggernaut
- Juggernaut
- Juggernaut
Greylord Forge Seer (Free)
Greylord Forge Seer (Free)
Koldun Lord
Koldun Lord
Greylord Ternion
Doom Reaver Swordsman
Doom Reaver Swordsman
Doom Reaver Swordsman
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Post by Netherby on Aug 4, 2017 9:33:47 GMT
Well, I haven't played her since CID and I actually lost every single test game I had with her... But my theory machine says she should be very versatile in list creation. I feel like she should actually be our best jack (and Jaws) caster now. The feat turn should see her able to get so much work done with the battle group, way more than Karchev or Harkavich can get. I'm inclined to actually put a Marshalled Behemoth with her (though I think reconstruct is battle group only?). Firstly to fix her obvious lack of magic damage and secondly because effective power 16 armour piercing is nuts But I'm also thinking she can be a solution for delivering our seldom used infantry like Doom Reavers and MoW Demo Corps. She can shield them very effectively from ranged nonsense and in the case of the MoW + Kovnik + Boundless Charge they are speed 8 and can be hitting at power 18... |
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Post by leotherat on Aug 4, 2017 12:27:30 GMT
Don't forget that boundless charge is model not model/unit so that would eat up 6 focus (assuming max MoW).
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Aug 8, 2017 15:38:21 GMT
Currently, it's this: Jaws of the WolfOld Witch 2 +27 -Conquest -37 -Behemoth -25 Widowmaker Marksman -0 Battle Mechaniks (Min) -3 -Battle Mechanik Officer -0 Kazay Assassins (Max) -15 -Underboss -4 Kayazy Eliminators -5 Kayazy Eliminators -5 Widowmaker Scouts -8 Dave, regarding your set up, don't you think you're short changing yourself on the opportunity to abuse Power Magnifier with only 2 jacks? Also, I'd be afraid with so few heavies that someone can get a jack or beast with a damage buff onto Connie and pretty much one round it. That happened to me on one playtest with OW2 against a Minions list. My opponent got a Primaled, Raged beast onto me and it was bye-bye Connie. Also, when I build Jaws lists, I'm generally trying to get to get to 75 points for the 3rd free solo. If they let mercs back into our theme lists, Ragman is sick with the Conquest plus Curse of Shadows. This alone is worth taking it. I'll post a more fulsome review of my playtest experience and theorymachine later, but if I were to fit Connie into a Jaws list I would probably want to go Jack heavy. Maybe something like this... OW2, Wardog, Victor, Kodiak x2, Marauder x2, Manhunter x2, Yuri, Mechs (min), Eliminators 2X. I am still up in the air about Kossites (I need to test them). With the above list, you could easily drop the 2 Marauders, and add a Kodiak plus min Kossites. Now nearly everything in the list has pathfinder. That doesn't suck... OW2, Wardog, Victor, Kodiak x3, Manhunter x2, Yuri, Mechs (min), Eliminators 2X, Kossites (min). (Still gets 3 free dudes). Finally have some time to reply properly! I'll try to break down some responses to Armchair's questions: 1) No, I'm happy with two (very good) jacks. I've tried her with 4 heavies and never spent everything on Power Magnifier because I've found I want to be doing more things in a turn. 2) Yep, a buffed heavy could get to conquest, but that's no different to other lists really. The mechaniks can do a great job repairing chip damage and otherwise it's just a case of knowing your opponents threat ranges as normal. Oh, this list is the list that has got the most out of mechanik reposition by far! 3) I think a whole new thread has started about the free point debate. Personally I'm not massively concerned about maximizing on free points in a theme list. 4) Yep, Ragman is great is conquest! 5) Interesting looking list for sure! You'll have to try it and see what happens. I got another game in with the list above against Ossrum in the Rhulic theme. Was pretty great with all the anatomical precision and sniper to bypass the high armour. The Old Witch's gun came in very useful this game, as did Windstorm. Reconstruct on Behemoth caused issues once again due to messing with piece trading and scenario (Behemoth threats a whole jack zone, opponent can't shift him at range and loose a heavy if they go for him). Ended in assassination once the forces had ground down. Ossrum went for a revenge charge on conquest, didn't kill him and was stood in range of conquest (obviously), Behemoth, Old Witch and an eliminator unit... Cheers, Dave |
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Aug 15, 2017 7:50:25 GMT
I've now tried her in Legion of Steel as well and was impressed with how the list played. Ends up being a totally different pairing to JotW (I'm thinking Zerkova2 in the greylord theme) but I think it's a strong option. 18" Windstorm protects the iron fangs on the way in and Curse of Shadows works great as a buff for them. Oh, casting Boundless Charge on the whole Great Bear unit was fun too  Here's the list I used: Legion of SteelOld Witch2 +27 -Destroyor -14 -Juggernaut -12 -Juggernaut -12 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Iron Fang Kovnik -0 Ulhan Kovnik Markov -7 Battle Mechaniks (Min) -3 Black Dragon Pikemen (Max) -17 -Black Dragon Officer & Standard -4 Great Bears -9 Iron Fang Ulhans (Min) -12 Iron Fang Ulhans (Min) -12 I actually have enough points in iron fangs to add Sofya once she's out, just waiting on the rules for her. Quick thought on Reconstruct: At first I was all for having a devastator in every list to make use of it as a very annoying scenario piece. However having used it with Behemoth I've found a lot of the use comes from the fact Behemoth threatens enemy heavies. The devastator doesn't really do this a lot of the time, even with Boundless Charge and Curse of Shadows, so I don't think it's quite as useful as I first thought. As such I've switched to a destroyer for some boostable ranged attacks in Legion of Steel and will instead use Reconstruct on the lead juggernaut. I think a Reconstructing juggernaut is still a very good scenario piece. It tradiesa little staying power for a lot of hitting power, which I think is worth it. Cheers, Dave |
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496 
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Post by Growl on Aug 15, 2017 9:48:59 GMT
thebuoyancyofwater cool thoughts and not trying to give you homework, but you used to do great battle reports. Any chance of you doing those again? I noticed in one of your battle report threads, at least I think it was yours, that you had the same problem I did with photobucket. Imgur works really well and is free, so far, for pictures. @armchairwarrior nice thread! Would be great to get a lot of information in one place about this lady. Maybe we could start making some other caster specific threads where people could gather their thoughts and reports in one place? Duh! I guess that's what the KGBs were/are for? Well, it's still a good idea lol.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Aug 15, 2017 11:21:42 GMT
Hi Growl,
Yeah I pretty much stopped playing for a couple of months and have just been getting back into things in the last month or so. Haven't got round to doing any new reports yet, but I should! I've got a game lined up for tomorrow, so will maybe try to grab some photos from that and get a report up. I'll be using the list above again, so will be handy here hopefully!
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by tsunami1k on Aug 17, 2017 2:24:08 GMT
So I built a doomreaver list for Old Witch the moment she released. Of course now I'll have to retool it for the theme, hopefully mercs are allowed soon because Orin makes a difference.
I'll be testing the list more at Nova in 2 weeks so I'll get some Batreps together then.
So far I've played 7 games with this iteration and 11 games total with this style of list. 3 losses, 2 prior to Orin to spell assassinations by Vayle2 and a Haley2 TK TA Stormclad, 1 to Ghost Fleet due to learning. Since the list I have managed 2 wins against Denny GF and 1 Terminus GF.
Its a fun list but boy does it take some work to place the Koldun Lord just right to shut down most shooting.
Adding Orin made a big difference. He protects Witch and Lord until Ruin gets fueled or for lists without living models. Usually send in 1-2 of the non-UA Doomies as the first wave. Followed closely with the ﹰRecontruct Berserker to be obnoxious (though in Theme it will probably become a Juggernaut or Kodiak depending on pts). Most matchups I tried to get Curse up round 2 and feat round 3. I think Ive used Power Magnifier once on Ruin during feat to get him into a Mountain King and never used rerolls. Mostly use feat to put out Scourge and move around Curse.
I will say that she is nasty if set up right. Boundless let's her charge 11" and it's been fairly easy to put blind on things when you threaten 23" with it. Or 26" with a boosted Scourge.
Curse is great, but don't get distracted by -2 armor. I've used it more to move through screening models then I have for the damage buff.
Now if only they will CID into Sacred Ward for the Doomies so I can Boundless them!!!!
War Room Army
Khador - Beserker Flood
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
Zevanna Agha, The Fate Keeper - WJ: +27
- Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
- Berserker - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
Fenris - PC: 9
- Fenris (Continued)
Koldun Lord - PC: 4
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
- Greylord Escort - PC: 3
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 13
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Aug 17, 2017 11:41:49 GMT
I played another game with my Legion of Steel OW2 list, same as above. I'm thinking I prefer her in Jaws of the Wolf, it just has much more versatility than the LoS list. However one issue is the lack of solos, which could be a pest in SR17 I think. Played against Baldur2, 2 x woldwrath, 1 x woldguardian, 3 x stoneshaper, 2 x sentry stone and 1 x shifting stones on Spread the Net. In the end I won on scenario since my opponent couldn't contest my flag at all and also struggled to get anything into my rectangular zone until it was too late. He had an issue where he couldn't feat because then he couldn't move Baldur to his flag. If he didn't score his flag that turn I won automatically, so he had to hold off on the feat. This meant I needed to kill one woldwrath (without Roots) to clear my rectangular zone, which was done by a juggernaut, destroyer, kovnik, black dragon officer and one of the mechaniks who cranked through some damage. Both jacks were fueled by the feat and had Boundless Charge. I think that if it had continued, I would have won on turn seven by keeping OW2 out of threat ranges. The healing available to that wrath was actually a little limited, so I might have been able to power through the feat turn to finish it since the juggernaut in melee had Reconstruct up, so would probably have still been on the board. I might write up a full report, will see Overall, pleased with the list, I just think OW2 can do better elsewhere. I'm also trying to work out the best pairing for her, will see what I come up with. On her arcane machineries: used Arcane Calibrations turn 1 (going first), Vexing Alignment turn 2, Arcane Calibrations turn 3 and the feat turn 4 (where Arcane Calibrations, Divinator, Power Amplifier and Range Amplifier were used). Cheers, Dave P.S. When will sentry stones change?! |
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Post by khador0932 on Aug 17, 2017 13:28:40 GMT
I've been playing her in the new theme with my opponents permission. The staples have been 24 Reavers & 2 Koldun Lords. The rest I've moved around a bit, but I think the Conquest + 30 Reavers is probably strongest. That or Conquest, 24 Reavers & 3 Outriders. The issue I've found is that if Wind Storm isn't relevant she just doesn't really do that much. Mostly the gun and throwing the odd Scourge around. That said, for the matchups it's good in the list feels incredibly strong. Spell Ward, Wind Ravager and Wind Storm is a hell of a setup. The plan has been to play her with Doom Reavers as a Cryx answer. She's survivable enough and helps her army out enough that she should be able to play a game vs Ghost Fleet, and I don't think Dark Host trades very well vs the Reavers. Paired with Vlad1 who can handle basically everything else (with OW probably picking up Protectorate) this seems like a fine pairing. I'm keen to try her out in a non-cryx beating role though. Something like Legion of Steel paired with another Cryx drop (no clue what, suggestions?) cause that's possibly stronger and I'd like to see where it goes. I just can't find a pairing I like as much on paper as Vlad1 WGK / OW2 WoW. Vlad1 WGK is hard to get away from. Maybe when the MoW theme comes out there'll be good reason to play Vlad2 or Zerkova1 in that theme, hopefully picking up Cygnar and the mirror, who knows. |
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