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Post by Azahul on Aug 2, 2017 5:25:03 GMT
I think, unless I'm missing something, that people are just remembering the late Mark II ruling in which the Meat Thresher couldn't slam because the target had already been knocked down by the time the slam happened. But knocked down models can now be slammed, so as far as I'm aware the only "skornergy" between Helga and the Meat Thresher are the issues custardboy highlighted. Namely, she directly supports infantry and Warbeasts, and only really has Defender's Ward to offer the Meat Thresher.
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Post by gobber on Aug 2, 2017 5:42:39 GMT
The skornergy doesn't exist anymore. In mk2 knocked down models couldn't be slammed, and the meat thresher applied the KD before the slam.
The meat thresher is perfectly fine on feat turn. A fast bulldozing model that can also be a backstop for slams enables a lot of interesting tricks. The other part of building for feat turn is bringing long-threat range guns to threaten KD'd casters on the edge of Helga's threat range. It can even bulldoze to line up targets for its slams to knock down a model further away to shoot with its gun.
General thoughts: Helga performs well when she can get way upfield to bully the enemy caster by threatening assassination, and face-tank some important models herself. This means she's great in 35 point games and below, but at 75points she struggles to handle all the threats. A mass of farrow valkyries will definitely help, but what she really wants is a reasonably costed (not Raluk or Brun) source of steady in the theme.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Aug 2, 2017 6:04:35 GMT
Okay, I got it now. I think a Meat Thresher works well with Helga. It now offers Concealment for troops heading up field, and the feat combined with (effective) Thresher on a Huge base... we're getting that mythical 5th damage die on a POW 16! I'm not sure what Small / Medium base model needed so much killing, but it's certainly dead.
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Post by Azahul on Aug 2, 2017 6:08:36 GMT
Oh, I agree. I think it's a solid piece for her. And hey, that 5d6 damage roll could theoretically be on an enemy heavy
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Post by gobber on Aug 2, 2017 7:15:15 GMT
Even if you have to deal with knockdown immunity, her feat lets your battleboars trade way up: 27.5 damage vs arm20 if you can get gang/primal/slamdie stacked. avg 25.5 if you need to charge.
Hence lists like this... Helga Roadie 4x Battleboar Thresher Brigs+Warlord Slaughters Min Commandos 2x Razorbacks (1free) 2x Efaarit (free)
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Aug 2, 2017 11:30:43 GMT
Even if you have to deal with knockdown immunity, her feat lets your battleboars trade way up: 27.5 damage vs arm20 if you can get gang/primal/slamdie stacked. avg 25.5 if you need to charge. Can you do the math, please? I can see no way to get so much damage.
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Post by Azahul on Aug 2, 2017 12:47:25 GMT
Can you do the math, please? I can see no way to get so much damage. P+S 15 (11 base +2 for Primal +2 for Gang Fighter) +3d6 (assuming you are able to arrange for the target to be slammed repeatedly into a model of equal base size or larger) averaging 5.5 damage to Arm 20 per attack. If no charge is required you get 5 attacks. 27.5 damage. It's a pretty optimistic scenario and hard to replicate when required but not so unlikely that it will never come up.
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Post by gobber on Aug 2, 2017 16:41:55 GMT
Free efaarit are helpful because they're a speedy large based backstop to manufacture this situation. The setup for slams also provides gangfighter, so it's not introducing any additional complication. If you're able to trade a battleboar and efaarit for a typical 15pt heavy you're doing well. Having efaarit around also makes your opponent much warier of helga's personal threat. With more terrain in lists these days, I've been able to get some use out of the damage aspect of feat in most of my mk3 games.
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Post by Gaston on Aug 2, 2017 16:47:52 GMT
Can you do the math, please? I can see no way to get so much damage. P+S 15 (11 base +2 for Primal +2 for Gang Fighter) +3d6 (assuming you are able to arrange for the target to be slammed repeatedly into a model of equal base size or larger) averaging 5.5 damage to Arm 20 per attack. If no charge is required you get 5 attacks. 27.5 damage. It's a pretty optimistic scenario and hard to replicate when required but not so unlikely that it will never come up. Go out of theme and bring Feralgeists, run to engage.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Aug 2, 2017 21:27:28 GMT
P+S 15 (11 base +2 for Primal +2 for Gang Fighter) +3d6 (assuming you are able to arrange for the target to be slammed repeatedly into a model of equal base size or larger) averaging 5.5 damage to Arm 20 per attack. If no charge is required you get 5 attacks. 27.5 damage. Thanks! FOr some reason I read "Razorboar" instead of "Battle Boar". Slammed models will move through incorporeal models, won´t they?
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Post by gobber on Aug 2, 2017 22:00:46 GMT
Thanks! FOr some reason I read "Razorboar" instead of "Battle Boar". Razorboar thought experiment... Lanyssa+Hutchuck+Primal+Gangfighter+Featdice: Avg25 vs khador heavies. mat9 Pow16 4dice charge vs arm18: 12 2x pow14 3dice attacks vs arm18: 13 And hey, Lanyssa might be in theme soon. With just free charges+primal+gang+slamdice a pair of Razorboars can kill a Marauder (avg19each)
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Post by ironjens on Aug 3, 2017 16:23:35 GMT
Yeah, I asked because of the mk2 skornegy, but I reread the rules and as you say: No more skornegy.
I'm going to try out Helga with double meat threshers and double slaughter housers running behind.
We'll see how it does, but the list allows me to play 17 points up...
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Post by Gaston on Aug 3, 2017 16:58:07 GMT
Slammed models will move through incorporeal models, won´t they? It was intended for gang fighter, sorry to cause confusion. Also of note, while Efaarit are good backstops, they are not steady and get knocked down as well when an equal sized base contacts them, removing the gang fighter bonus after the first attack.
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