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Post by ironjens on Jul 30, 2017 16:16:33 GMT
Hi. I'm attending a Champions tournament next week that I joined way back in february. Now I realize ADR has changed so I have to pick up Helga (I mainline pigs) But I have a big question: Are meat threshers still a no go with her feat? Since it's the damage roll that is exchanged for the slam and threshers knock down on a hit?
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 30, 2017 17:20:03 GMT
Helgas feat says you "may" slam, therefore there's no problem.
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Post by Azahul on Jul 30, 2017 22:43:58 GMT
Better yet, you can now slam knocked down models, so I don't think there's any problem at all. Being able to bulldoze a model back 2" and then slam it can be absolutely killer too  |
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Post by custardboy on Jul 31, 2017 0:45:55 GMT
It wasn't her feat that made threshers a bit meh with her. You don't feat most games anyway. Its that her spell list and passive support beasts and warriors. She doesn't help a battle engine.
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Post by Azahul on Jul 31, 2017 0:57:00 GMT
I'd argue that the Meat Thresher benefits more from Defender's Ward than just about any other model we have, it's a good model to hide Helga behind, and that a 16" Bulldoze run is a pretty great tool for setting up Helga's assassination run.
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Post by Tenzilla on Jul 31, 2017 2:02:49 GMT
I'd argue that the Meat Thresher benefits more from Defender's Ward than just about any other model we have, it's a good model to hide Helga behind, and that a 16" Bulldoze run is a pretty great tool for setting up Helga's assassination run. Agreed...I love doing this |
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Post by DoktorGrym on Jul 31, 2017 3:20:25 GMT
With the concealment the Thresher offers now, rolling up to the left/right/behind of it with a few Razor Boars has been really nice too. Folks can either deal with the Razor Boars and if they are in ready set go counter charge mode even better. The push>slam is just a good time.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 31, 2017 6:34:09 GMT
I didn't think of bulldozing things around to get her in, good point. Now if only she wasn't MAT6  |
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Post by Azahul on Jul 31, 2017 7:20:31 GMT
I didn't think of bulldozing things around to get her in, good point. Now if only she wasn't MAT6 I never sought to claim that Helga was actually good |
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Post by Tenzilla on Jul 31, 2017 14:46:29 GMT
You just boost to hit then its pretty much game over for the caster you slam! and she is also a gang fighter, so its worth running a slaughterhouser into position if you can.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Aug 1, 2017 8:36:00 GMT
You just boost to hit then its pretty much game over for the caster you slam! and she is also a gang fighter, so its worth running a slaughterhouser into position if you can. Well, I really love that freaking Helga sculpt and therefore I run her every now and then. One thing I noticed is that her feat=>assassination run is a trap. It looks cool on paper, but in reality... ...every warcaster/warlock and his aunt have ways to circumvent knockdown effects. I know that this statement isn´t true, but in my area I don´t see a lot of warcasters/warlocks which have to fear Helgas feat. Either they are immune to being knocked down or they are leading from the far back. ... Helga has a really high threat range, it´s true. Unfortunately every single piece that is normally mentioned to enhance her assassination capabilities doesn´t offer that threat range. Running a Slaughterhouser to give gang. How should that happen? Jamming range of a slaughterhouser is 14" and then he has no immunity to free strikes. Dash can´t be counted for because you can´t cast Dash, run the Slaughterhousers then let Helga do her things. Best model for enabling Gang on Helga seems to be either a Totem Hunter or Hutchuk if he sneaks in from the side. But the former one is not allowed in Theme and the latter one normally is a major target, because no one likes to have Hutchuk behind his lines. ... Helga isn´t strong enough to assassinate all on her own. She needs other models to do this. I tried her with a ranged battlegroup to get boostable damage for her assassination run but I faced the above named problems. It´s a pity. So overall I´m heavily dissapointed by Helga. In my opionion she lacks something big, but I can´t say what it is. Maybe a really good feat. Her abilities and spells look cool on paper, but I think she miss the appropriate models to really shine. For example Gang on her warbasts is really strong, but you need to deliver those mediocre Farrow infantrymen. And she has no way to increase the threat range of her warbeasts, at least not in Theme (out of theme it´s Lanyssa, but it´s just for one target). THerefore it´s more of a "eat the aplha and strike back" if you like to go beast heavy, but what models shall eat the alpha? |
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Post by Azahul on Aug 1, 2017 13:01:57 GMT
For the assassination, I like the Feralgeist (Incorporeal) and Efaarit Scouts (speed 8 flankers) as other options for proccing Gang Fighter. The Efaarit are particularly good because if you can get them behind the enemy Warcaster you can usually slam the Warcaster into the Efaarit for days and it won't take Collateral and will continue to proc Gang Fighter.
Boostable guns are good for finishing off, but regular guns (Brigands, the aforementioned Meat Thresher and Efaarit, etc.) are also pretty great.
I ran a 100% assassination tech'd Helga list including River Raiders and Dahlia and Skarath and all sorts of other weird tech for a while. It was good fun, but I wouldn't recommend it as anything beyond a fun list.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Aug 1, 2017 14:06:43 GMT
The damage roll is exchanged for the slam? Explain?
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Post by gobber on Aug 2, 2017 4:37:38 GMT
"When a FF model in Helga's ctrlrng hits an enemy model with a basic melee atk, instead of a normal damage roll, the enemy model can be slammed d6" directly away from the attacking model; slamdamageroll=ps; collateralpow=str; 1turn."
Damage roll becomes a slam damage roll of the same ps. Basically the damage roll is effectively the same as it would have been with the regular attack; same PS and can claim the normal modifiers to the attack such as charge damage or slaughterhousers' finisher. If the slam results in the target hitting a model of equal or larger base size, you get an extra damage die (her feat is a damage buff with proper setup; efaarit backstops are key). It inherits rules from the "slammed" section, not the "slam power attack" section of the rules.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Aug 2, 2017 5:16:26 GMT
So if the damage maintains the characteristics of Charge, Finisher, Grinding Wheel, etc., then where is the Skornergy with the Meat Thresher?
What is the practical application of the feat that makes the Meat Thresher subpar? I am just trying to understand the premise.
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