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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 29, 2017 23:34:57 GMT
When we were testing the new scenario system in CID I said that I think Ambush is much stronger now, with all of those flags and zones within striking distance. I still think it's huge but recent buffs to Bane Riders and Long Riders also have me thinking about cavalry.
All cav are at least relatively if not very fast, and that could be a big help with the more spread out scenarios, but even in say, Breakdown, there are two circles, one on either side. The ability to get a unit into either zone on turn 2 without having to fully commit that same unit on turn 1 could be a real asset.
Cavalry units tend to have decent survivability. They have hit boxes and enough armor to resist at least blast damage and low-POW shooting. Since they clock in at 4 points per model, you can't trade them too lightly, but they can trade up against jacks, especially if they get off the charge.
This was mentioned briefly in another thread, but some of the Menoth players are starting to use Vengers in the Exemplar theme specifically for scenario play, and I think that we will see a lot more cavalry in general in the coming months.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Cavalry?
Jul 30, 2017 11:15:58 GMT
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Post by isotope on Jul 30, 2017 11:15:58 GMT
Im not taking destors, cant make me. If the gods are kind enough to CID them to be no gun, armor pierce lance and a hand to hand weaponmaster sword similar to vengers I'd at least slightly consider maybe possibly taking them.I dont own them and in their current complicated crazy flow chart rules id get better value burning a $100 bill than to pick them up.
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Cavalry?
Jul 30, 2017 12:05:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Jul 30, 2017 12:05:21 GMT
Im not taking destors, cant make me. If the gods are kind enough to CID them to be no gun, armor pierce lance and a hand to hand weaponmaster sword similar to vengers I'd at least slightly consider maybe possibly taking them.I dont own them and in their current complicated crazy flow chart rules id get better value burning a $100 bill than to pick them up. I wouldn't count on any of those things, they're not going to make them identical to another factions cav, nor are they going to change their weapons to something that isn't on the model. Really all they need is to lose the Lance rule. To OPs point I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing more flanking cav. I've played a couple games in 17 where I just had nothing I could contesting rear zone with, cav that didn't suck (I play Ret) would have been hugely beneficial.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Cavalry?
Jul 30, 2017 13:11:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by isotope on Jul 30, 2017 13:11:16 GMT
They need way more than to lose lance rule. PP has said they will not be removing lance rule from them. They have so many rule interactions that you clock yourself trying to resolve everything, plus they actively work against themselves. Assualt in, kill your target then can't hit with lance therefore cant quick work. Assualt in a heavy hit it dont kill it therefore cant quick work. Dont assualt kill something then can quick work. The problem is their point c9st reflects all these abilities and they rarely get to use them all. That doesnt even mention the garbage that is .5 inch unyielding... PP is the everlasting joke of Ret. If they completely wiped the slate clean and started from scratch theyd actually have a chance at seeing play( and being bought). I have no issue with their appearance or the idea of cav, but their card is just total horse shit( yes, thats a pun).
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Cavalry?
Jul 30, 2017 15:07:08 GMT
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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 30, 2017 15:07:08 GMT
Remove assault give them assault and battery
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Cavalry?
Jul 30, 2017 18:21:10 GMT
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 30, 2017 18:21:10 GMT
As a Circle player first our Calvary is really fast but lacks any staying power and doesn't really have the damage output they should for thier cost. I would rather use Sentry stone and manikins as contesting pieces any day. If Wolf riders became cheaper or hit harder and if mist riders...found a purpose other than killing low arm infantry really really well I would be more interested but other options are just better. Bloodtrackers are always the better choice imo if you want a fast flanking unit. As a protectorate player one day, when I own 2 units of each Calvary choice in faction I will play with tables full or angry horses. But my wallet can't currently sustain that investment
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 30, 2017 18:22:26 GMT
Please don't derail this entire thread just to complain about one unit. That's not at all the point. You have every right to do that, but I'd appreciate it if you'd start your own thread to discuss something that, while related, really is a different topic.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 30, 2017 18:25:41 GMT
As a Circle player first our Calvary is really fast but lacks any staying power and doesn't really have the damage output they should for thier cost. I would rather use Sentry stone and manikins as contesting pieces any day. If Wolf riders became cheaper or hit harder and if mist riders...found a purpose other than killing low arm infantry really really well I would be more interested but other options are just better. Bloodtrackers are always the better choice imo if you want a fast flanking unit. As a protectorate player one day, when I own 2 units of each Calvary choice in faction I will play with tables full or angry horses. But my wallet can't currently sustain that investment We did see Mist Riders pop up in tournament lists, if only for a little while. Perhaps a minimum unit for troubleshooting and scoring circles?
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jul 30, 2017 18:40:24 GMT
[...] id get better value burning a $100 bill than to pick them up. I find that this isn't quite true. I've brought bad units and models and with the next rule change, they became great. Not just in WMH, but in other systems too. Of course, that means spending money on something that could be good in the future rather than something which is good now. It does mean that my collection is all over the place in terms of power, but it's all stuff I like, either mechanically or aesthetically, and I'm OK with that. On Topic: Almost every game I play in MKIII gives me another reason to paint and assemble my cavalry, and that's even without SR2017. I'm finding myself out threatened by a great deal otherwise and sometimes even needing to redeploy quickly, something that my faction otherwise struggles to do.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jul 30, 2017 19:16:11 GMT
Agreed. Cavalry received many boosts in mk3 general and unit rules that taking them became a much more popular choice, scenario play or not. SR2017 doesn't really change that that much, perhaps flanking maneuvers are a little bit more valuable, with more spaced out scenario elements.
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Post by pangurban on Jul 30, 2017 19:22:26 GMT
I play Ret, Legion and a bit of Cryx. Legion cav was good before SR2017 and Bane Riders got CIDed, I didn't need any extra encouragement to pick up these models anyway. Destors though... Ret has so many good models, including ones that are fast and resilient (it doesn't have to be ARM) enough to help with scenario, that they'd need to get improved dramatically before I'd give them a second thought. Doesn't help that there's no theme force for them either.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 30, 2017 20:08:13 GMT
I find Uhlans serviceable but not really sexy or exciting. Hit a few times, hope to not die on retaliation.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 30, 2017 23:05:39 GMT
Agreed. Cavalry received many boosts in mk3 general and unit rules that taking them became a much more popular choice, scenario play or not. SR2017 doesn't really change that that much, perhaps flanking maneuvers are a little bit more valuable, with more spaced out scenario elements. It does help that the cavalry rules themselves are streamlined and improved.
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Cavalry?
Jul 31, 2017 0:50:44 GMT
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Post by Cryptix on Jul 31, 2017 0:50:44 GMT
Double ulhams and a unit of IFP advance moving are scary good at scenario with Karchev feat, I've gotten 5 points in a single turn once.
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Post by pangurban on Jul 31, 2017 1:04:26 GMT
Double ulhams and a unit of IFP advance moving are scary good at scenario with Karchev feat, I've gotten 5 points in a single turn once. What? Karchev's feat doesn't affect warrior models.
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