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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 19, 2017 14:29:52 GMT
I can agree OW is just lackluster and even lacks a competitive list to call home. From my experience playing her everything you probably imagine doing with her is better or same with Sorscha 1. Ok but which one are the alternatives, considering that banez got prowl and you can even maximize that playing Aspy 2? My idea of best anti-melee-infatry list available is wgk. Banes charges something irrelevant, then WGI spray them and Carriage does it's mega impact thing. Melee infantry just can't beat massed sprays unless it's satyxis which list in question doesn't play. The problem is having magic weapons to beat Wraith engine. Unless A&H gets allowed I only see Butcher + Ruin as the only out. In case of B3 he even can kill infantry well himself and prevent recursion on top. If it's Blackbanes or some solos Sorscha or Zerkova should work fine.
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Jul 19, 2017 16:20:50 GMT
In both cases we are applying Silence of Death to the GC. At POw 16 our impact attacks SHOULD hit hard enough to crack any armor. Do be aware that set defense applies to Impact attacks....but that would mean needing to roll 8 on three dice. Not "great" when you really want a lot of impact attacks to hit but probably OK (83% chance to hit) for most games. RFP with Silence of Death is huge into the GF The gun carriage's mount has no strength modifier, it's a straight pow 14 so unfortunately silence of death will not make it a pow 16.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 19, 2017 16:28:25 GMT
In both cases we are applying Silence of Death to the GC. At POw 16 our impact attacks SHOULD hit hard enough to crack any armor. Do be aware that set defense applies to Impact attacks....but that would mean needing to roll 8 on three dice. Not "great" when you really want a lot of impact attacks to hit but probably OK (83% chance to hit) for most games. RFP with Silence of Death is huge into the GF The gun carriage's mount has no strength modifier, it's a straight pow 14 so unfortunately silence of death will not make it a pow 16. Thanks. Brain fart on my part without my third cup of cofffee. I KNOW that about SID - just not sure why I forgot while posting. That would mean stuff that could get to ARM 20 would be at decent risk of shutting it down.
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Post by zerosequence on Jul 19, 2017 16:41:36 GMT
Great discussion going on here.
Something we need to consider is the list chicken part of this. If we have one list for ghost fleet and one for banes we are in a list chicken standoff and could end up in a bad matchup. That means we need a dedicated Cryx drop that can handle both.
This is no easy task.
For ghost fleet it's actually better to have more jacks. While they can power through some armor they struggle against LOTS of armor. Also bodies just give them Machine Wraiths and Souls.
But Banes easily chew up armor. We need more bodies and shooting and board control to counter them.
Dare I say... Zerkova1 into both? I've run her in Cloud wall LoS and it is really good. It lacks a hard endgame though so you really need to play better than your opponent. New releases may improve this, as does potential for Mercs in theme. Also the change to solos scoring flags is huge for this theme because free IFKs can sit behind shield/cloud walls to score.
Her feat is a killer counter to Denny1 feat in ghost fleet and can completely shut down banes for a turn as well, with proper positioning. Clouds to control shooting and charging. Hex blast to strip upkeeps.
Thoughts?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 19, 2017 16:53:01 GMT
Whats with all the "Drops" I feel like people don't teach how to play against something with a list you like, and instead teach how to build beforehand for it.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 19, 2017 17:06:44 GMT
Again, I don't think Butcher 3 with a WGI build _IS_ list chickened. Even more so if you can bring Kell and A&H in the new CID working its way through. SO he can become your "Cryx" drop with some key play points guiding him (don't allow your argus to be crippling grasped/Have Ruin nearby to knock it off; In general keep Ruin safe to help). It isn't the BEST but it gives you multiple factions to drop into you - you probably just coudn't use it in certain instances where your opponent has a massive "no shooting" sort of play. Not sure it works well into GarCols EITHER but I haven't seen if I can work it so I can fit a Victor/Conquest in (the problem with just "regular" jacks is that there are a lot of lists out there that can defeat those jacks in detail, denying Butcher 3 the piece trading he loves...For example Convergence builds or some circle builds with Loki. But if you bring, for example, a Conquest list under Vlad 2 or Strak1 that solves that match up.
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Post by leotherat on Jul 19, 2017 17:21:52 GMT
Zerkova 1 is on the ADR so that may make some difference to people. You can then use her for your Cryx drop and adjust her list after knowing which list you'll be facing. The other casters in ADR aren't too shoddy either: Lord Goat, Strak 2 and Irusk 2 so finding a list partner shouldn't be that onerous.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 19, 2017 21:33:40 GMT
Probably Strakhov2 as he can crack armour which Zerkova cannot especially if she is in wgk. As I found out.
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kuarnix
Junior Strategist
Posts: 145
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Post by kuarnix on Jul 19, 2017 23:47:24 GMT
Whats with all the "Drops" I feel like people don't teach how to play against something with a list you like, and instead teach how to build beforehand for it. It's true, they are combo-breaker lists that tend to challenge the person across the table from you to fight you without some obnoxious advantage. If they are a good player they can and will still ride it to victory, so that's where learning to play against the list comes in. But yeah you really gotta have RFP for Ghost Fleet. Dark Host... not so much. But high pow magic shooting would be nice. How about that steamroller objective yeah?
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Post by Netherby on Jul 20, 2017 4:15:58 GMT
Whats with all the "Drops" I feel like people don't teach how to play against something with a list you like, and instead teach how to build beforehand for it. That's kinda because there are these lists out there that you can't really play against with the thing you like... If you want to have a game into it then you need to have included answers in your army list.
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kaos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 268
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Post by kaos on Jul 20, 2017 7:28:20 GMT
Or ask louder questions. Usually Khador question is "can you handle all that armor?" and Cryx answer is "Hell yes!"
Anyway this is the upside of two list format. You will get into a rock paper scissor situation and you need to play along if you want to win. And we don't attend tournaments to lose.
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