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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 17, 2017 13:56:42 GMT
Nah theres got to be more than just apparition.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 17, 2017 16:04:56 GMT
Every theme has 1 ability given. I don't see how this one will be different.
Apparition is actually a very strong ability. If we add some spd buff on top or use terrain Outriders will outthreat their common counter of 20" shooting infantry and ternion will have great angles with their freeze debuffs.
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Post by leotherat on Jul 17, 2017 16:19:19 GMT
My guess: Greylord units and solos + Doomreaver units and solos
For every 25 points of units/solos gain a free medium or small based solo or attachment All greylords gain apparition Models in the army gain immunity: cold
my 2 cents based upon what I've read here and what I think PP likes to do.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 17, 2017 16:28:44 GMT
Every theme has 1 ability given. I don't see how this one will be different. Apparition is actually a very strong ability. If we add some spd buff on top or use terrain Outriders will outthreat their common counter of 20" shooting infantry and ternion will have great angles with their freeze debuffs. Every theme has from 1 to 2 abilities given. Apparition is nice, but does 0 to cover for all the weaknesses that greylords have already. But as PP said they just decided to release ALL the themes even if unfinished, and then just have the releases for them later, as opposed to only releasing them when all the stuff is already there.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 17, 2017 16:51:17 GMT
Yeah - apparition for greylord units is definite "meh". Might keep my ForgeSeers a BIT safer/give them a better chance to Apparitate into the back arc to trigger a battlewizard but not a huge deal. Greylords will still get shot off the table like wet paper. The threat extension 16 vs. 14 isn't great. Ponies do a bit better (19 inch) but still meh......
But consider
"Winters Cold: DoomReavers can be targeted by clouds from Greylords.
Now THAT would make for a good time ;-)
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Jul 17, 2017 16:53:58 GMT
Out of curiosity, where are people getting that units become the type of the attachment that they have? I know someone else had mentioned it on FB with regards to cygnar, I'm just curious to read about it myself. I'm assuming it's a cid thing?
Because if the reavers got apparition that would be amazing. Take fenris, apparate into rough terrain, relentless charge out. That would actually do something for them.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 17, 2017 17:26:48 GMT
Out of curiosity, where are people getting that units become the type of the attachment that they have? I know someone else had mentioned it on FB with regards to cygnar, I'm just curious to read about it myself. I'm assuming it's a cid thing? Because if the reavers got apparition that would be amazing. Take fenris, apparate into rough terrain, relentless charge out. That would actually do something for them. This was important I believe in MK2 with some Cygnar stuff which hinged on a mercenary unit being considered a "trencher" unit (I would have to go back and remind myself the specifics since I only play AGAINST swans and not WITH them). (BTW - as I recall this also was the case with Valachev - it just didn't matter that much in our greylord "theme") Murdoch had Trencher on his card. The way the ruling went is that because of this a unit that he was attached to ALSO became a trencher unit. Since the Greylord Esccort for the doomreaver is.....welll....a GREYLORD the extension of that logic would be that the doomreavers also become a greylord unit. But I don't expect it to work that way because while Cyngar is Matt Wilson's faction and love, Khador is the bad guy. That is also why I am betting a beer to anyone that will take that irrespective of what was said at L&L the 2018 faction (golden cruciable) WILL ultimately get the Cygnar partisan rule.....because "Wilson Fluff"
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Post by leotherat on Jul 17, 2017 17:51:13 GMT
Actually, the rule now is that for a unit to qualify as an "X" unit all members of that unit must have the "X" designation. If an effect works on a unit then all of them must qualify, if it works on a model by model basis then each model that qualifies would gain that effect. Page 9 of the mini rulebook.
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Jul 17, 2017 17:57:33 GMT
Out of curiosity, where are people getting that units become the type of the attachment that they have? I know someone else had mentioned it on FB with regards to cygnar, I'm just curious to read about it myself. I'm assuming it's a cid thing? Because if the reavers got apparition that would be amazing. Take fenris, apparate into rough terrain, relentless charge out. That would actually do something for them. This was important I believe in MK2 with some Cygnar stuff which hinged on a mercenary unit being considered a "trencher" unit (I would have to go back and remind myself the specifics since I only play AGAINST swans and not WITH them). (BTW - as I recall this also was the case with Valachev - it just didn't matter that much in our greylord "theme") Murdoch had Trencher on his card. The way the ruling went is that because of this a unit that he was attached to ALSO became a trencher unit. Since the Greylord Esccort for the doomreaver is.....welll....a GREYLORD the extension of that logic would be that the doomreavers also become a greylord unit. But I don't expect it to work that way because while Cyngar is Matt Wilson's faction and love, Khador is the bad guy. That is also why I am betting a beer to anyone that will take that irrespective of what was said at L&L the 2018 faction (golden cruciable) WILL ultimately get the Cygnar partisan rule.....because "Wilson Fluff" Ah it's from mk2. I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way anymore. There was a ruling on the forums about that privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?257175-Units-with-mixed-model-types&p=3653371#post3653371Based on that, and the wording of the spoiler, I'm assuming the escort would get apparition, but the doomies don't. That is pretty under whelming. Still a lot can change before they release it. And I hate to be crazy tinfoil hat, but I agree, it's really hard not to feel like they have wilson fluff going on for cygnar. At beginning of Mk3 they wanted a living rule set to address meta imbalances and couldn't wait to nerf Karchev and maddogs into the ground. A year later and now that it's cryx and cygnar at the top and they are telling us they are going to be scaling back the errata (which is weird as they hadn't done much anyways), learn to deal with it and shape the meta yourself. I wish they would stop flip flopping how they want the game to go. I mean I get why from a business standpoint, they spent all this time telling people to buy into new and improved cryx, they don't want to scare people off of it and cygnar is the poster boy good guy faction, I just find it frustrating as a gamer looking for overall health and balance of the game.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Jul 17, 2017 17:59:44 GMT
My guess is that it'll also sport cloud generation at the start of the game like the bane theme. That would help with delivery some.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 17, 2017 18:27:43 GMT
This was important I believe in MK2 with some Cygnar stuff which hinged on a mercenary unit being considered a "trencher" unit (I would have to go back and remind myself the specifics since I only play AGAINST swans and not WITH them). (BTW - as I recall this also was the case with Valachev - it just didn't matter that much in our greylord "theme") Murdoch had Trencher on his card. The way the ruling went is that because of this a unit that he was attached to ALSO became a trencher unit. Since the Greylord Esccort for the doomreaver is.....welll....a GREYLORD the extension of that logic would be that the doomreavers also become a greylord unit. But I don't expect it to work that way because while Cyngar is Matt Wilson's faction and love, Khador is the bad guy. That is also why I am betting a beer to anyone that will take that irrespective of what was said at L&L the 2018 faction (golden cruciable) WILL ultimately get the Cygnar partisan rule.....because "Wilson Fluff" Ah it's from mk2. I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way anymore. There was a ruling on the forums about that privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?257175-Units-with-mixed-model-types&p=3653371#post3653371Based on that, and the wording of the spoiler, I'm assuming the escort would get apparition, but the doomies don't. That is pretty under whelming. Still a lot can change before they release it. And I hate to be crazy tinfoil hat, but I agree, it's really hard not to feel like they have wilson fluff going on for cygnar. At beginning of Mk3 they wanted a living rule set to address meta imbalances and couldn't wait to nerf Karchev and maddogs into the ground. A year later and now that it's cryx and cygnar at the top and they are telling us they are going to be scaling back the errata (which is weird as they hadn't done much anyways), learn to deal with it and shape the meta yourself. I wish they would stop flip flopping how they want the game to go. I mean I get why from a business standpoint, they spent all this time telling people to buy into new and improved cryx, they don't want to scare people off of it and cygnar is the poster boy good guy faction, I just find it frustrating as a gamer looking for overall health and balance of the game. +1. The thing that helps the game is when you have faction vs. faction balance so that we get new players (and new factions) so that every game is new. Personal experience - with a number of folks gone to L&L I decided that cleaning the garage would be more fun than same old same old at the FLGS on Saturday. That can't be a good sign ;-(
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Post by skathrex on Jul 18, 2017 8:50:39 GMT
Not to dent your tinfoil hats, but what you are describing is PP listening to the community. Lately there where a lot of people complaining about to many erratas and their purchases becoming invalid.
Furthermore they nerfed Stormlances and while GF is tough its not an unwinable matchup like Tuna or Karchev where. With GF you actually have to play a game and don't win with auto pilot. Basing the Nerf/no-Nerf Assumption on Faction Bias is...well you already said it...a bit to much on the side of conspiracy theory for my taste. I mean Cryx just went threw a year of people calling it one of the worst factions. And GF just emerged after 4 month of it beeing called bad.
BTT.: apparition would help a few thinks a lot, but I am not sure I even want it on doomies, because to be frank that would be crazy. 13" thread would be HUGE. That said they wouldn't hurt with some love. Giving them Concealment the UA would be nice or dropping them a point. Not to much, but a bit.
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Post by borderprince on Jul 18, 2017 17:40:33 GMT
But consider "Winters Cold: DoomReavers can be targeted by clouds from Greylords. Now THAT would make for a good time ;-) Personal preference would be "Dark Secrets [or something]: Greylords may target friendly Doomreavers with spells". Gets the clouds from the Ternion, but also lets you use sacrificial Doomreavers to line up Outrider sprays against untargetable models. Would also give a nice benefit to the Greylord casters: Zerkova1 could use Ghost Walk (on demand pathfinder would be very useful); Zerkova2 could cast Banishing Ward to no purpose and Karchev could explain to the Doomreavers that he doesn't cast spells on anything with a pulse. Does open some design space for giving casters the Greylord designation down the line though.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 18, 2017 17:51:16 GMT
But consider "Winters Cold: DoomReavers can be targeted by clouds from Greylords. Now THAT would make for a good time ;-) Personal preference would be "Dark Secrets [or something]: Greylords may target friendly Doomreavers with spells". Gets the clouds from the Ternion, but also lets you use sacrificial Doomreavers to line up Outrider sprays against untargetable models. Would also give a nice benefit to the Greylord casters: Zerkova1 could use Ghost Walk (on demand pathfinder would be very useful); Zerkova2 could cast Banishing Ward to no purpose and Karchev could explain to the Doomreavers that he doesn't cast spells on anything with a pulse. Does open some design space for giving casters the Greylord designation down the line though. Better. Why I don't design games ;-)
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Jul 18, 2017 19:17:49 GMT
Not to dent your tinfoil hats, but what you are describing is PP listening to the community. Lately there where a lot of people complaining about to many erratas and their purchases becoming invalid. Furthermore they nerfed Stormlances and while GF is tough its not an unwinable matchup like Tuna or Karchev where. With GF you actually have to play a game and don't win with auto pilot. Basing the Nerf/no-Nerf Assumption on Faction Bias is...well you already said it...a bit to much on the side of conspiracy theory for my taste. I mean Cryx just went threw a year of people calling it one of the worst factions. And GF just emerged after 4 month of it beeing called bad. BTT.: apparition would help a few thinks a lot, but I am not sure I even want it on doomies, because to be frank that would be crazy. 13" thread would be HUGE. That said they wouldn't hurt with some love. Giving them Concealment the UA would be nice or dropping them a point. Not to much, but a bit. Eh, I disagree. Storm lances haven't actually been nerfed yet it's just been a suggestion and Una and Karchev are hardly anymore autopilot than GF with a wraith engine. The live game itself has been quite stable. In the year since mk3 launched we've only had 3 erratas and a great deal of the content was to clean up rule wording. That's basically the same rate as mk2. I think a lot of the perceived instability has to do with CID. That thing is changing every week and then you get to gaming nights where some people want to play cid and some people want to play live, it's a cluster muck where PP has put so much emphasis on their beta test that it's started to blend into the live game and is kind of messing with everyone's expectations. But agreed this is off topic. I don't think apparition on doomies would be that crazy. 13 inch threat is good, but that's still no where near what most shooting can do to them and at the end of the day you still can't give them things like battle lust or iron flesh and they are a pretty expensive unit for 6 bodies. I think it would even out. Maybe give back silence to Fenris. That would be nice and not over the top.
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