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Post by tesoe on Jul 13, 2017 20:04:59 GMT
"Once per turn at any time during it's activation, this model can use one of the following effects." Sounds like she can use one effect, once per turn to me. The individual effects don't need to call out their usage because the main rule already clarified it. The last line if you keep reading it says "Arcane machinery effects last for one round" Seems pretty clear cut? So she can keep her increased control range and reduce spell cost. A warjack's focus doesn't have a duration. If you read the rule and the effect together you can once per round spend 1 focus to give 2 focus to a warjack.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 13, 2017 20:12:57 GMT
Sounds like she can use one effect, once per turn to me. The individual effects don't need to call out their usage because the main rule already clarified it. I was in the CID. I know what their intent was. The "One Per Turn" is a qualifier for the arcane machinery. Not what their actual effects are. Power Magnifier is a Passive Bonus, Just like the rest of the effects. Otherwise, it would override all its other effects. Its like if Arcane Machinery was Berserk, it would only allow berserk to trigger once. Edit: And seriously its pretty clear cut and its designer intent. We used it up to 7 times a round and the designers never corrected us.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 13, 2017 20:14:18 GMT
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Post by leotherat on Jul 13, 2017 20:15:22 GMT
I'm going with only 1 Jack can benefit from Power Magnifier on any given turn. The rule says spend 1 focus to give 2 focus points to a warjack in its battlegroup.
It doesn't matter what the intent in CID is/was RAW it only allows for a singular jack to take advantage of the ability.
edit: I'm not a member of the CID board and can not see any posts on that forum. Since the post isn't available to the general public then it gets the Las Vegas treatment from me. What happens in CID stays in CID.
Also any effect from Arcane Machinery only lasts for 1 round per the last sentence.
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Post by tesoe on Jul 13, 2017 20:22:24 GMT
I don't have access to the CID, but it's not like other things haven't changed between the CID and live model. The rule seems pretty clear cut that you can only use it once. Triggering Power Magnifier multiple times would be more than once.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jul 13, 2017 20:22:46 GMT
This is the last reference I found in the CID forums regarding the rule. That version of the rule had this wording: "Power Magnifier - This model can spend a focus point at any time during its activation to give a friendly Faction warjack in its battlegroup two focus points." They literally only added "that is in her control range" before the period.
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Post by tesoe on Jul 13, 2017 20:28:23 GMT
So a few months ago during test it worked one way. Now that the model is out the ability say you can only use it once per turn. The text of the effect not changing doesn't alter the fact that the ability says it can only be used once per turn.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 13, 2017 20:39:55 GMT
So a few months ago during test it worked one way. Now that the model is out the ability say you can only use it once per turn. The text of the effect not changing doesn't alter the fact that the ability says it can only be used once per turn. No, it doesn't that's just one way of interpreting the grammar. You're being pedantic. It's not RAW that you can only use the sub-ability once per turn.
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Post by tesoe on Jul 13, 2017 20:48:34 GMT
So a few months ago during test it worked one way. Now that the model is out the ability say you can only use it once per turn. The text of the effect not changing doesn't alter the fact that the ability says it can only be used once per turn. No, it doesn't that's just one way of interpreting the grammar. You're being pedantic. It's not RAW that you can only use the sub-ability once per turn. There is no"sub-ability." The ability is Arcane Machinery. Which is useable only once per turn. One of the effects you can get from using Arcane Machinery once per turn is Power Magnifier. Power Magnifier let's you spend one focus to give two focus to a warjack. Nothing says you can get the effect Power Magnifier more than once. Quite the opposite actually.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 13, 2017 20:52:14 GMT
There is no"sub-ability." The ability is Arcane Machinery. Which is useable only once per turn. One of the effects you can get from using Arcane Machinery once per turn is Power Magnifier. Power Magnifier let's you spend one focus to give two focus to a warjack. Nothing says you can get the effect Power Magnifier more than once. Quite the opposite actually. And nothing says you can't spend it more then once either. The only thing that says you can only use one effect refers to the sube effects of arcane machinery. Any ability that allows you to spend stuff on stuff has always had a "You can only do this once" clause written INTO the effect. Not into the over effect that it contains. Its like saying that Tactical Supremacy is not a sub ability of Irusk 1s Orders for instance.
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Post by tesoe on Jul 13, 2017 21:05:08 GMT
Probably because sub abilities aren't a thing in the game really. There are abilities and effects. In this case the Effect is caused by using the Ability. Nothing about the Effect says you can spend more than one focus. It specifically uses singular terms instead. And the Ability you have to use in order to get that Effect can only be used once per turn.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 13, 2017 21:08:33 GMT
Whilst you two were fighting I posted on the old pp rules forum.
Hopefully we can get an answer soon, provided the infernals are still active.
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Post by tesoe on Jul 13, 2017 21:10:03 GMT
Whilst you two were fighting I posted on the old pp rules forum. Hopefully we can get an answer soon, provided the infernals are still active. Thanks.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 13, 2017 21:12:31 GMT
No problem.
Going back on those forums was very nostalgic.
I do miss that place sometimes, the community hasn't been the same since.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 13, 2017 21:13:29 GMT
Probably because sub abilities aren't a thing in the game really. There are abilities and effects. In this case the Effect is caused by using the Ability. Nothing about the Effect says you can spend more than one focus. It specifically uses singular terms instead. And the Ability you have to use in order to get that Effect can only be used once per turn. Your being aggressively pedantic to Limit OW 2 in my opinion. In your opinion, can Cognifex Cyphon use "essence amplifier" more then 1 time per turn? Or ever since it has no "This can be used as many times as you want per turn" ability? Can he use Sacrificial Pawn more then 1 time per turn? Range Amplifier also doesn't state it doesn't activate for more then 1 spell. The EFFECTS are passive abilities. How would YOU write it to be what the designers intended it to be by RAW?
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