|
|
Post by jonnyboy on Jul 10, 2017 2:21:43 GMT
I've been running behemoth and a forge seer within jaws of the wolf recently. I always have a tough time deciding whether or not to include him in my battle group or jack marshal him.
I have always chosen to not marshal him and use the FS to just caddy a focus for the behemoth. I feel as though I'm losing a lot of potential from the +2 dmg to ranged rolls from marshaling. Which I guess is where having two FS would be nice and wouldnt be too strenuous in Jaws of the Wolf.
This also sounds like a huge investment (potentially 33 points) for a jack artillery piece. Two boosted power 16 range shots arent a joke either, and getting close to the behemoth is pretty dangerous in of itself.
Does anyone have success marshaling a decimator or destroyer? What about Andrei malakov, 4 focus, speed/dmg boost, and the same price. Sounds like a better decision for melee jacks, but i've also a game vs andrei controlling a decimator (the speed boost helped get the shots off pretty well). He loses jack marshal though. Does anyone consider marshal bonuses better than raw focus?
How are most people using forge seers, are they mostly situational (for the ranged magic dmg buff)? Do you ever find yourself just bringing one as a focus caddy, for let's say butcher1/old witch/harkevich, warcasters that are focus strained but also like large battle groups?
I've read a few discussions on the model, but he's been out in the battle field for awhile and I'm guessing some opinions have changed.
|
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 10, 2017 2:40:29 GMT
I use them to Marshal Behemoth. Haven't been disappointed yet - only with myself in holding him back when really he should be moving foward. POW 16 shots are nice. Crush'ed ARM piercing melee attacks are better.
|
|
|
|
Post by samuraijaques on Jul 10, 2017 3:57:49 GMT
I use them to Marshal Behemoth. Haven't been disappointed yet - only with myself in holding him back when really he should be moving foward. POW 16 shots are nice. Crush'ed ARM piercing melee attacks are better. Who is your warcaster when you marshal him? My very first thought when looking at the greylord forgeseer was "wow, behemoth would be amazing with this guy" but I usually play casters that like having him in their battlegroup so it's a bit of a tradeoff. |
|
Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496 
|
Post by Growl on Jul 10, 2017 11:44:18 GMT
You definitely lose out on some Battlegroup buffs and FEATS, but I typically don't want Behemoth leading the charge, so the idea that he might be slower than a Battlegroup is ok. I've used 2 seers and Behemoth especially with someone with Boundless Charge. Mid to late game, having Behemoth charge 10" under "Crush" and Signs and Portents gives 5 P+S 14 AP attacks with add a die and drop the lowest. Really terrible.
|
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 10, 2017 16:57:57 GMT
I use them to Marshal Behemoth. Haven't been disappointed yet - only with myself in holding him back when really he should be moving foward. POW 16 shots are nice. Crush'ed ARM piercing melee attacks are better. Who is your warcaster when you marshal him? My very first thought when looking at the greylord forgeseer was "wow, behemoth would be amazing with this guy" but I usually play casters that like having him in their battlegroup so it's a bit of a tradeoff. Harkovich. I miss mobility and repo (a LOT) but Harkovich also can be focus starved if he is needing to cast mobility. Behemoth can get a TON of work done as a "second/third wave". 1. Harkovich sets the line and about 2/3rd of the time feats defensively. 2. They send in some stuff. Not that much because ARM 23 is a thing but they usually have to send SOMETHING in to contest and it needs to be strong enough or they are simply getting steam vented to death and having the clouds reset on them. 3. They now send in their army. Arm 20 is still a thing. But I will lose some stuff. 4. This is the turn Big B. needs to be within 8 inches of the key part of the battle field. Crush. Give 2 focus. He charges with 1 and then we get all the joy of CRUSH! with an extra focus to use. Or he "STRIKES TRUE!" if it is a high def thing like a WarpWolf. Hark usually wants to have as much focus as possible to give to Juggers AND have enough not to die. He is a fun and interesting caster that way. Still working to fully get him in this package (and avoid throwing away my free stealth models for no gain - which happens WAY too often) |
|
|
|
Post by zerosequence on Jul 10, 2017 17:13:44 GMT
Don't do this , ever. A stationary jack that is marshaled can't shake it. All it takes is one time and you lose a 33pt investment.
I've tried various jacks with the forgeseer and it is always good... until you get hit with the stationary effect. Then you lost all those points for at least one turn.
|
|
|
|
Post by maleficoru on Jul 10, 2017 18:43:51 GMT
I'm a huge fan of Behemoth on Malakov especially when playing with a caster that has boundless charge as a counterpunch piece as 12" threat behemoth is legit especially at pow 14.
Otherwise marshaled destroyers on Forge seers have done well for me but I am super leery of putting anything more than a destroyer marshaled due to the inability to shake effects or how juicy of a target your marshal becomes wheres Malakov can use focus to stay somewhat safe.
|
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 10, 2017 19:10:37 GMT
Don't do this , ever. A stationary jack that is marshaled can't shake it. All it takes is one time and you lose a 33pt investment. I've tried various jacks with the forgeseer and it is always good... until you get hit with the stationary effect. Then you lost all those points for at least one turn. Sure and this is common in how many factions? A problem in theorycrafting and not in real life. And a pistol wraith (if that is your bug a boo) is out threatened by the marshalled behemoth and would likely die to the boosted blasts. I have played now 20 games with the Hark list. I have been stationary exactly ZERO times. They have far more important things to worry about than a mobile artillary platform who is in the second wave. |
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 10, 2017 19:15:16 GMT
I'm a huge fan of Behemoth on Malakov especially when playing with a caster that has boundless charge as a counterpunch piece as 12" threat behemoth is legit especially at pow 14. Otherwise marshaled destroyers on Forge seers have done well for me but I am super leery of putting anything more than a destroyer marshaled due to the inability to shake effects or how juicy of a target your marshal becomes wheres Malakov can use focus to stay somewhat safe. I have lost a total of ONE forgeseer in 20 games (so 40 opportunities). They can empower from 7 inches away - which means in practice they are about 8 to 9 inches BEHIND the jack. They are ARM 16 with 8 boxes. They are surprisingly hard to kill. the bigger issue is that it can be hard for them to get work done with only MAT 6. That said, I have hit plenty of stuff with the big axe and been able to battle wizard a focus over to Big B if they try to jam me/get infantry to them. You have to try them. Proxy them in a Jaws list with some extra shocktroopers if you are leery of the purchase. Open the rule book to marshalling to understand just how wonderful it is ON THE TABLE rather than in list crafting. You will not be disappointed (at all). |
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 10, 2017 19:17:28 GMT
Oh and just to add to the naysayers - it is important to understand that a Marshalled Jack doesn't go "inert" It becomes independent. So, for example, you could boundless charge it 7 inches or have it waddle forward 4. Not going to be great but sometimes you just need to shove 34 to 36 boxes within 4 inches of a flag to win a game. Conversely, inert jacks neither control nor contest.
|
|
|
|
Post by blindfury on Jul 11, 2017 0:54:10 GMT
Seems as good a place as any to ask this.
Can you use Malakov I in a JOTW list?
If so...woo life just got good.
|
|
|
|
Post by welshhoppo on Jul 11, 2017 6:26:21 GMT
Nope. Otherwise I'd have bought him already.
|
|
