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Post by sand20go on Jul 12, 2017 19:55:25 GMT
I would never remove the grolar from the list, this jack has performed way too much for me. In your scenario, you need toch or the spriggan to be at least 16 inches away from Denny to put a flare on her and then shoot her. At that distance if you had a grolar it could just get to her and kill her, without needing a boosted 12 (that's before considering thing like cover or concealement), the conquest will be able to trigger overrun in ghost fleet with all the pirates running around, and if the grolar gets to denny she's dead unless she was camping a lot, heck even on full focus you might be able to kill her if you roll 5 shots. The grolar threat with overrun superiority and no feat is 16'' Native pathfinder makes forest and other rough terrain like rubble irreleveant. Why go for the ranged maybe throw when you can go for the way less dicey and more efficient melee knock down? I have yet to test the list against ghost fleet, but my Jaw of the wolf version has both a grolar and torch, and I think it has game against ghost fleet. No Spriggan an Yuri, the plan is to keep denny honest with overrun melee threat. It's the list that was already posted on this very thread. I'm not sure the WGK can deal with ghost fleet, Strakhov will be tough to kill and Denny needs to watch out for the casterkill but it's going to be a tough match up in all cases. I could be wrong, if you test it and it works please let me know, but just in theory I can't agree with your idea. Torch's distance is more. Superiority - SP 6. Charge 9 (or is Strak1 is going for a downtown assassination 13 and wants to go all in and be a foot from Denny1). Then +10 for the flares. The key here is that you don't have to "shoot" the flares when you Assault. You move your Speed +3 + any modifiers like the feat or superiority and then PLACE the flare (singular) where you want to in your LOS. So in theory this could up to 23 inches from where Torch started if by some odd chance you need that much distance. BTW - you can PLACE the first flare and then shoot with the second. So you COULD, in theory and with a hard 11 (rat 5 if I remember Torch's card) hit her. That also means you COULD spray her from 19 inches away with Torch without any overrun needed (would need to feat). You can also spray AND flare. The problem is that Ghost fleet doesn't NEED denny to really play up and stay in holy spear range. Those ghost shots over time into Parasite'd jacks take their tool. Ditto simple pirate shots using gang and point blank. Add in clock issues. Like Terminus mech spam of old you CAN (and will) clock yourself.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 13, 2017 9:28:10 GMT
Superiority - SP 6. Charge 9 (or is Strak1 is going for a downtown assassination 13 and wants to go all in and be a foot from Denny1). Then +10 for the flares. The key here is that you don't have to "shoot" the flares when you Assault. You move your Speed +3 + any modifiers like the feat or superiority and then PLACE the flare (singular) where you want to in your LOS. So in theory this could up to 23 inches from where Torch started if by some odd chance you need that much distance. BTW - you can PLACE the first flare and then shoot with the second. So you COULD, in theory and with a hard 11 (rat 5 if I remember Torch's card) hit her. That also means you COULD spray her from 19 inches away with Torch without any overrun needed (would need to feat). You can also spray AND flare. Just for clarity's sake, I don't believe you can flare AND take your remaining ranged attacks if you charge, since Assault only gives you one ranged attack (plus of course if you didn't make it into melee with Denny then your activation ends after the assault shot, and if you did then you're now engaged and can't make ranged attacks). So I guess the range for using the flare AND another attack is something like: 6" move 6" overrun (possibly triggered by Torch himself using his flamethrower for example) 10" flare range So 22" for flare-and-shoot using Overrun, 16" without Overrun?
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Post by auraco on Jul 13, 2017 11:09:16 GMT
I believe Soul Samurai is right, assault only grants you one attack. And I don't think using the shooting in the list for the very dicey (we're talking 11+ and 12+ needed on dices) to kill Denny is a good idea. It might work, but most often if will not, unless a shrine to the dice god grants you special favors when playing against cryx I firmly believe that with Strakhov1 it's the melee threat of his jacks that will keep denny honest, you probably won't be needing the feat for anything else than threathen for a casterkill in that match up anyway, so go for the definitively non negligible 20'' melee threat range on Strakhov1's jacks.
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Post by skathrex on Jul 13, 2017 14:00:32 GMT
Maybe you are right auraco, as I said I don't have enough games with Strakov2 to call his matchups. DrNorbert ran him as a pair for Vlad1 in the ETC and seemed to be quite happy with it. Out of theme is the only way you could maybe build him but LoS is just a really nice fit for him. I quite like him but I too will not play him a lot in the future because I want to focus on Strakov1 quite a bit and I need to stop switching casters to often.
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Post by auraco on Jul 13, 2017 14:07:20 GMT
I have a really hard time finding a satifying list for Strakhov2 outside of that legion of steel list. His kit helps really specific things, you want a lot of infantry for efficient use of last stand (even though I've barely even used that spell) few warjacks because he doesn't support them well, high armor models to get the most out of his feat and IR for the armor stacking (because lets not kid ourselves, kayazy with +3 arm will still die to a stiff breeze) so that pretty much leaves us with Legion of Steel. I'm also having way too much fun(and success) with Strakhov1 to let him go, he's a terrific jack caster that can build good list in more than one theme force and be competitive and his plan is not the Harkevich plan of just putting a lot of armor on the table and hoping your opponent isn't able to deal with it.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 13, 2017 14:22:29 GMT
I've run sk2 with a man o war list and he works with them really well. But again, legion is better.
My biggest gripe is that I can't fit Black Dragons, Pikemen, Uhlans and a Conquest in the same list with him.
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Post by auraco on Jul 13, 2017 14:28:47 GMT
Yeah the 22 jack point is showing on that guy more than on B3. B3 can trade up very easily so 22 jack points seems fair, Strakhov2 and his buddies can do some work, but nowhere near as much as butcher and yet they have the same amout of jack points.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 13, 2017 15:22:31 GMT
I tried the LoS Strakhov2 and didn't like it. Last stand isn't a good spell on fangs. Imagine you're fighting high def infantry that you want to hit, but can't trade your dudes 1-for-1 against theirs, or trying to jam, it's counterproductive to both. And if you fight heavies it's basically a worse battle lust\fury since hitting is easy there.
My go to list for him is WGK since wg dudes are cheap and melee is indeed a last resort for them. Also Strakhov's shooting+repo comes very handy there.
I think Irusks and Z1 are the best casters for LoS.
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Post by auraco on Jul 13, 2017 18:23:48 GMT
Oh last stand is a terrible spell for Strakhov2 in Legion of Steel, out of 7 games I only used it once to affect a single great bear to finish an Angelius on Fyanna2's turn. The reason why Strakhov2 is good to run Legion of steel is the scenario game when you have quicken on pikemen combined with the advance move on a unit and the feat to keep your dudes alive and well on the scenario on turn 2.
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Post by auraco on Jul 14, 2017 5:01:41 GMT
And the lists are on discount gamings: www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/Yes we had a guy with destors in one of his list, yes he also lost the only game he played with that list. We played against the team that finished 2nd and 3rd.
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zeffid
Junior Strategist
Posts: 163
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Post by zeffid on Jul 17, 2017 7:42:20 GMT
I just wonder - is LoS the only way to go with Strakov2? I'm ttying to design some other list but with not much success.
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Post by auraco on Jul 17, 2017 22:44:13 GMT
Haven't played him out of LoS but it's pretty much the only kind of list that satisfy me when I try building list with him.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 18, 2017 10:29:58 GMT
Yeah, LoS is probably the best way to play him.
You get everything you want. Except an ideal last stand target, but I've killed a fair few casters with last standed Uhlans or Bears.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 18, 2017 12:01:25 GMT
I like this wgk Strakhov2 list and will be considering it for tournaments as soon as he finishes being painted: Strakhov2 -2x Juggy Carriage Joe full WGRC full WGI Widowmakers big mechs 2x field guns and mortar
Still not sure if big units or small units with more rockets are the way to go.
For me bigger problem than LoS vs. wgk is that B3 is so much better than anyone else in wgk, that it's impossible to justify other casters in it except for weird meta counters like Sorschas. At least Strakhov2 has the 22" wgrc shoot and 22 arm on carriage incentives over B3 and can shoot well himself.
I think he also can do the kayazy spam Jaws list, but I don't have 2x kayazy units for it to try.
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