martini
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
|
Post by martini on Jul 6, 2017 10:48:19 GMT
Hi all!
I feel that countinous effects are to weak and elemental immunity to strong.
Woud something like this be better?
Fire con. effect: pow 14 Corr con. effect: d3+1 dmg
Immunity change to resistance [x] where x gives armor versus the typed dmg. Still no con. effect while a model has resistance to that type of effect.
Good? Bad? What is Your opinion?
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 6, 2017 11:06:56 GMT
I think corrosion is fine, it is a death sentence for single wound infantry which I guess is its role, if it were to be d3+1 its starts damaging Heavy infantry and jacks a bit too well.
Fire has suffered now that casters can spend focus to reduce the damage, but a pow 12 is still perfectly respectable when there are feats and abilities that add additional damage or dice to the roll.
I am not completely adverse to the suggestion of 'resistance', I just wonder whether it is needed, the immunities at the moment seem ok
|
|
|
Post by jisidro on Jul 6, 2017 11:09:59 GMT
I think immunities are the worst part of the WM/H rules. They seem randomly (Fluff based) put into models and create ridiculous situations...
|
|
whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by whydak on Jul 6, 2017 11:20:39 GMT
For me it would make sense if size would affect continuous effect. Fire already hurts infantry, but heavies don't care if they are burning like torch. The bigger you are the bigger flame can you fuel 30mm pow 10-12, 40mm pow 12-14, 50mm+ 14-? Other effects could also work in similar manner. POW14 fire for all may be little bit to strong. Corrosion may see some bump, it feels weak in comparison to others. D3 may be enough. But it would cause a lot of balance issues. I prefer to accept some strange "from common sense point of view" situations as a cost of keeping game as clear and simple as possible. Changing immunities to allow many levels would make everything more complex and force rebalancing many models. I don't think its worth it. For some smaller game maybe, but we see 50+models list.
|
|
|
Post by pangurban on Jul 6, 2017 11:52:29 GMT
As with many perceived minor (and not so minor) issues in the game: as soon as melee infantry becomes more generally useful again continuous effects gain value as well.
|
|
|
Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 6, 2017 12:17:26 GMT
Corrosion doesn't need a change. It kills single wound infantry regadless of armor.
I don't particularly think fire needs a change, but there might be some models that rely too much on it and need a tune up (looks at Feora1).
|
|
martini
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
|
Post by martini on Jul 6, 2017 12:45:44 GMT
So maybe change the order a bit.
So con. effect takes effect and then the roll for it to go away is made.
That way it will work at least once.
|
|
|
Post by dicebedamned on Jul 6, 2017 13:02:07 GMT
I like the always working once idea, makes getting cont effects off worth while.
I think immunity to something should just stop the effect, and not the damage. For example, currently, a Reckoner shoots Strakhov, he takes no damage despite the shell from the gun weighing about a tonne, hitting him in the chest at 100mph... It just seems at odds with physics.
Then again under my proposed change, eleaps would still cause pow 12s despite being immune to the actual lightning...
It's harder to balance than first thought...
|
|
whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by whydak on Jul 6, 2017 13:10:06 GMT
Maybe Reckoner weapon works more like flame thrower? Azreal got it right. He throws flaming spears. He has no damage type with continuous fire. So when you are immune to fire you don't start to burn but get damage from spear. So no rule changes are need to have such effect.
|
|
Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Cyel on Jul 6, 2017 14:06:51 GMT
They seem randomly (Fluff based) put into models ... But WM&H is generally (like all? wargames and unlike the most neatly designed modern board games*) designed "upside down" with fluff/model first and rules designed to represent it . *-which have a neat, mathematically consistent mechanical system first and have a theme bolted on as an afterthought ("This game can be both in equal measure, but it would be funnier if it was about aliens abducting different farm animals than about renaissance precious stones merchants. Let's do aliens!")
|
|
|
Post by jisidro on Jul 6, 2017 15:05:20 GMT
They seem randomly (Fluff based) put into models ... But WM&H is generally (like all? wargames and unlike the most neatly designed modern board games*) designed "upside down" with fluff/model first and rules designed to represent it . *-which have a neat, mathematically consistent mechanical system first and have a theme bolted on as an afterthought ("This game can be both in equal measure, but it would be funnier if it was about aliens abducting different farm animals than about renaissance precious stones merchants. Let's do aliens!")
I like fluff, it's the draw into the game... But then people never stay because of it...
I'll give you an exemple: Firefly/Stormclad/Thunderhead have electricity based guns and are immune. This means that they can't shoot at models they arent hurt by and vice-versa. It doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, it creates a null effect on the table when it comes to guns.
Enter the Stormwall... Ooops, because it has storm on the name it is immune but his guns work just fine. Suddenly the situation is horribly skewd on the table and makes elemental type straight up disadvantage. Same can be said of the Fulcrum. I think casters/solos (at least characters ones) should be exempt from this but regular models, aka, not FA C shouldn't.
I'd like the damage immunity to go away, perhaps just immune to any and all effects except the damage? By any effect I mean no leaps (Which would fix them IMO), no continuos Fire/Corrosion, no effect whatsoever... No Krueger Gun Sustained attack, no KD from the reliant... Just like the rule on the Hurricane.
|
|
|
Post by chillychinaman on Jul 6, 2017 16:41:57 GMT
Someone brought it up in another thread, but it'd be cool if corrosion stacked for a point of damage each. Another idea that was +5 armor like what Troll Fire Eaters have instead of flat immunity.
|
|
|
Post by W0lfBane on Jul 6, 2017 17:09:50 GMT
An idea i like that someone suggested once. "If a model suffers the continous fire effect and is already suffering said effect the damage roll of the fire effect next round receives a +2 bonus" you could make it cumulative or not up to you
|
|
spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
|
Post by spideredd on Jul 6, 2017 17:52:38 GMT
I'd rather immunity be much rarer and resistance was implemented instead. That's a wish for the future though...
|
|
|
Post by tiberius on Jul 6, 2017 19:03:34 GMT
The fact is that immunity is simple to implement and remember and resistance adds more math. I can see why the designers use one more than the other.
|
|