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Post by Charistoph on Jul 3, 2017 19:31:01 GMT
I'm thinking about switching out from Skorne and mercenaries to either Cygnar or Retribution. I'm still relatively new to actual gameplay, so I haven't faced either one on the table.
I like the models for both, for different reasons, so that doesn't help. I do have more Mercenary models that will work for Cygnar, but that isn't really a fact at this point.
What are the pros and cons when considering choosing between these two factions?
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Post by pangurban on Jul 3, 2017 19:49:20 GMT
Cygnar is probably a smidge stronger if you go for the most powerful options. Ret has incredible internal balance though: there are very, very few Retribution models that are outright bad for their cost. If you like a quasi-complete collection and being able to use all of it, Ret's your faction.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jul 3, 2017 19:56:41 GMT
I think Ret would be loosely comparable to Skorne playstyle. They have extremely solid jacks. They get solos to hand out focus and buff damage. They have a large roster of weapon masters. They are highly mobile and play movement tricks. (arcane whiplash or w/e it's called.) but they don't take a punch nearly as well. Force fields can help with that somewhat.
Don't Play Cygnar. Please. [/joke]
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Post by Aegis on Jul 3, 2017 20:12:38 GMT
Both are good factions, and with a certain preference for ranged combat.
That said, I may suggest Cygnar only if:
1) You are prepared to hear whines on almost every piece you own. Cygnar trades pretty bad, on both Jack and units versant, but it has a lot of very great tricks to cheat trades and get the edge despite it. That means that usually the game is pretty binary: If you manage to pull out your tricks well your opponent will not be able to play how he wants, and usually will get annoyed, if your opponent instead manages to force you into fair trades you will usually get totally crambled and so YOU will get annoyed and unable to do much. That from one side is very thrilling, since you feel so much to have to use your tools at the best, so is very tactically intriguing, but on the other side you will hear a lot more complains when you whin than with every other faction. Be prapared.
2) You are up for a very steep learning curve. For the things mentioned in point 1, you will likely lose a lot in the first period until you learn how to use every tool you have at best.
3) You accept that you will a pretty bad internal balance (crappy models that never get play and some almost auto-includes, horrible casters and very powerful casters, etc...)
If you instead prefer a faction with a good internal balance and that will neat you a lot less whines (while being a little less big as number of models) ret is for you.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Jul 4, 2017 15:36:40 GMT
I think you should play Cygnar because their stuff is blue! (What do you mean that's not a good reason? OK, let's try this next one.)
I think you should play the Retribution, because they are elves, and elves are cute! (OK, let me look through the Retribution book. Yeah, those are some scraggly looking elves. Is it too late to backspace?)
On a more serious note, if you are completely indifferent between the 2 factions, I would suggest Cygnar for one of the reasons that you said didn't matter - you already have Merc models that will work for Cygnar. As you get some warcasters and the bare beginnings of an army together you will have the Mercs that you can use to bulk out the army to give you a full playing force. Will it be a true, pure Cygnar army? Who cares?!? You'll have something new and different to plop down on the table and have fun with friends.
Realistically, though, you should be making the decision on what your next army is, and you shouldn't need help from people like us on the Internet. One of these two should be *calling* to you. If you aren't really excited about one over the other, why would you be excited about painting or playing that faction? If you are really excited about both factions, why not start both of them?
Your post makes it sound like this decision is not an exciting one for you, which it should be. It sounds more like asking for help with a decision before starting a task. If that is the case, maybe the answer should really be: neither.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 4, 2017 16:08:52 GMT
Pick Cygnar if:
1. You like the aesthetic of Storm Nouns, Trenchers, and Cygnar Jacks.
2. You like getting regular new releases and getting new models first.
3. You like playing the good guys/protagonist faction.
4. You like having access to lots of stories about the characters in the faction.
Otherwise, they're both competively strong factions. Ret has excellent internal balance, Cygnar is getting closer to that with CID. They both shoot very well, with solid melee.
If you like the anime/ninja elf/mech look of Ret, go for that.
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Post by GreatBigTree on Jul 4, 2017 21:02:47 GMT
I've been playing for about 3 months or so, and am very happy to have started with Retribution. They're fun to play, have neat positioning tricks. I play a 2/3 shooting focus to 1/3 melee focus, and have done well against the folks I've played against in London [Ontario]. I liked the look, wanted a quick, glass-cannony type army with sneaky tricks, and got everything I wanted in Retribution.
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Post by Charistoph on Jul 4, 2017 22:18:14 GMT
On a more serious note, if you are completely indifferent between the 2 factions, I would suggest Cygnar for one of the reasons that you said didn't matter - you already have Merc models that will work for Cygnar. As you get some warcasters and the bare beginnings of an army together you will have the Mercs that you can use to bulk out the army to give you a full playing force. Will it be a true, pure Cygnar army? Who cares?!? You'll have something new and different to plop down on the table and have fun with friends. Realistically, though, you should be making the decision on what your next army is, and you shouldn't need help from people like us on the Internet. One of these two should be *calling* to you. If you aren't really excited about one over the other, why would you be excited about painting or playing that faction? If you are really excited about both factions, why not start both of them? My Merc collection is 4 Star focused, so all I'd be keeping is 3-4 Solos and no units. The only thing I want to keep is Crosse (I have the Kickstarter model) and some Jacks for him. While I am not generally a fan of elves, I do like their curbed armour asthetic. The fact their units are flexible is also a bonus. |
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Post by celeb on Jul 6, 2017 5:50:18 GMT
With retribution, although you don't have as many models as Cygnar, you have a lot of different available playstyles: Want to have a Jack-melee force? Vyros2 and Helynna have your back. Helynna can also play a shooty Jack force Want to play a lot of Dudes? Yes, also easily possible, in ranged and melee variations Movement tricks? Here, have Helios and Battle Mages. Also, Rahn. Retribution is very good at assasination, if you like that playstyle, but can play Attrition and Scenario reasonably well. Well, money isn't endless for most of us  |
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jul 6, 2017 6:11:42 GMT
Going to plug for Retribution, here.
- They've got the best internal balance of any faction in the game right now. There's like...one suboptimal warcaster, 2 mediocre-poor (not even terrible) units, and one or two bad solos. Pretty much everything in the faction can be played in some capacity, so it's unlikely that you're going to feel like you've wasted money on anything (except Nayl...) Honestly, though their overall model count is lower, they probably have as many playable models as Cygnar does.
- They have an immense variety of playstyles. They can run gunlines, they can run alpha strike lists, they can do infantry swarms, they can do jack bricks, they can do movement shenanigan lists that assassinate the enemy caster by pulling them from one end of the table to the other. There's really no one playstyle for Retribution, so you won't get bored.
- They're a ton of fun. Lots of interesting interactions and synergies to work out, that aren't always obvious.
- People won't hate you for playing a faction that may or may not be overpowered, but certainly DOES have an extremely non-interactive play style.
- You get to kill all the round ears in the name of the goddess
I have not regretted picking up Retribution in the same way I have felt regret at times for playing Cygnar or Circle. They're a lot of fun, and I can't recommend them enough.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690 
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Post by zich on Jul 6, 2017 9:19:09 GMT
As a former Cygnar player I recommend Retribution.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Jul 12, 2017 19:52:56 GMT
Cygnar generally shoots more accurately (and often harder) than Retribution who prefer more of a combined arms approach (barring a few specific Warcasters in both factions). Cygnar can also field a ton of electro leaps to easily deal with enemy infantry.
Cygnar is seen as slightly stronger from a competitive point of view, so if you want to win tournaments, Cygnar might be easier (though people do it with Retribution as well, so don't feel like they can't compete).
Retribution is often considered one of the harder factions to learn. There are very few "auto-pilot" lists in Retribution where you basically do the same thing every game. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on your mindset.
Cygnar - with its ton of allowed Mercs - is probably the biggest faction in the game. If you are a completionist, know that collecting all of Cygnar (+Mercs) is a much more daunting task than collecting all of Retribution (and their 2 Merc and 2 Partisan choices). This is because Cygnar has existed since the beginning of the game whereas Retribution really cropped up at the transition to mk2.
If you love Warjacks, I think the recently released Shyeel Arttificers gives the Retribution a slight advantage over Cygnar if you want to run armies composed almost purely of giant murder machines.
What is pushing you away from your current factions? In other words, what are you looking for in your future faction?
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Jul 12, 2017 20:25:15 GMT
Both are good and have strengths and weaknesses. Go with whatever one you think is cooler.  |
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Post by Charistoph on Jul 13, 2017 15:55:45 GMT
What is pushing you away from your current factions? In other words, what are you looking for in your future faction? Mercenaries are too internally divided to make for a good collection. I run the humans and have no interest in getting Cephalyx or Rhulic 'casters. The last Merc Warjack was Rocinate, and I can't remember who the last new human 'caster was. I have also had them for too long and just getting burned out of trying to decide how to build my stable. I am just getting burned out on having Skorne. I feel little compunction to play what I have and I find certain of the Warlocks to be repulsive. Basically, I'm trying to get back the feeling of wanting to build and paint the models that I get for the faction. I've lost it for these two, and I've had an interest in the other two for some time. |
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Post by GreatBigTree on Jul 14, 2017 21:32:20 GMT
What's being played in your area? Is one or the other in short supply? If 1 person plays Cygnar, and 5 already play Retribution, taking Cyg would probably be more exciting in your area. Not that I actually expect Cygnar is less played than Ret... but you never know.
I personally like taking an army that isn't being played in my area. Opponents tend to find that more exciting, and gaming is a shared experience.
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