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Post by splitdafur on Jun 29, 2017 5:45:31 GMT
Komrades, I am trying to break into MK3 after taking some time off from the game after they destroyed my lovely Vayl1.
The list i have been working on is:
War Room Army
Khador - Hark'; the Wolf Cometh
Theme: Jaws of the Wolf
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Arcane Wonder - Steamroller Objective
Kommander Harkevich, The Iron Wolf - WJ: +28
- War Dog - PC: 0
- Black Ivan - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
- Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Destroyer - PC: 14
- Kodiak - PC: 13
- Kodiak - PC: 13
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
- Behemoth- PC: 25
Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0
Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 5 Grunts: 5
This list seems good to me and I have had some success with variations including dropping a jack for more solos/ eliminators/widowmakers.
I haven't actually played with the forge seers but they seem too strong not to take at this point.
The point of this post 2 fold:
1. I'm looking for some suggestions on what I may be missing from the list above, including if I should switch casters (kharchev? Vlad1? ??) are there key points that I am not including that may be a problem for me in general and who is this list weak against.
2. I'm looking for a caster/ list that would compliment my current list and also play somewhat differently. I am leaning towards Z1 because of the fluff and the magic but I don't know if she pairs wells or how to build her list. If there are better options I'm open to discussing them and hopefully learning how to play Khador better!
let me know what you think!
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Post by splitdafur on Jun 29, 2017 5:46:02 GMT
Reserved
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Post by narvt86 on Jun 29, 2017 6:00:00 GMT
sr2017, circle zone cant be control with jack u should trade wardog 4 widowmaker marksman he can be useful all game long and take zone easely .
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Post by Netherby on Jun 29, 2017 8:54:27 GMT
sr2017, circle zone cant be control with jack u should trade wardog 4 widowmaker marksman he can be useful all game long and take zone easely . They have said that circle zones will only be controllable by UNITS when it goes live. Solos will only be able to control flags now. But the battle mechanics can score and your caster can score on everything. So I don't think it would be that big a of a problem for a list that plans to attrition any way. Our jack casters are Karchev, Harkavich and probably Old Witch2 when she comes out. Harkavich is the easiest of them to play, but he's easier to kill than you would think and has no damage buffs. So he's weak into shenanigans assassinations that can move your stuff around or generally get LoS in some way and you have no armour cracking outside behemoth in your list. |
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Post by borderprince on Jun 29, 2017 9:37:55 GMT
The point of this post 2 fold: 1. I'm looking for some suggestions on what I may be missing from the list above, including if I should switch casters (kharchev? Vlad1? ??) are there key points that I am not including that may be a problem for me in general and who is this list weak against. 2. I'm looking for a caster/ list that would compliment my current list and also play somewhat differently. I am leaning towards Z1 because of the fluff and the magic but I don't know if she pairs wells or how to build her list. If there are better options I'm open to discussing them and hopefully learning how to play Khador better! let me know what you think! In relation to the Harkevich list: 1 - you are going to struggle against heavy armor. Harkevich has no damage buff and aside from Behemoth, you have no real melee damage dealers. 2 - Blast-immune infantry heavy lists. Things like Trenchers, Satyxis Raiders or Irusk2 lists (none of which are especially unusual). Your main anti-infantry is blast based (5-8 AoEs a turn), with Vent Steam for some variety. Satyxis and Irusk2 are probably the bigger problem, as their infantry can do enough damage to take down the jacks. 3 - Claiming some zones in SR2017. Getting a unit or two of Eliminators into the list would help and stay in theme. As for complementing, how different do you want to be? Infantry-heavy would obviously be very different, but that might be beyond budget. You also need a list that can play into heavy ARM, including things like Arcane Shielded Centurions or colossals. Harkevich is also quite a passive caster, who doesn't really get stuck in. Some possibilities: 1 - Butcher3 + Ruin gives an active caster who can also take on high ARM, with Ruin taking down upkeeps. Can be played in Jaws with Kayazy, or Winterguard Kommand for protection from shooting. You can use the Kodiaks well with him too. 2 - Legion of Steel - infantry heavy, but hard-hitting. Add a caster with a melee damage buff to take it further. Strakhov2 is popular, but Irusk1 or 2 could also work. I like Zerkova1 in Jaws, but I don't think it's a great complement to your list. She also lacks a damage buff (although Hex Blast can remove ARM buffing upkeeps). She could work interestingly in Legion of Steel for you, but I think you would need to include at least one powerful melee jack (I'd suggest a Juggernaut and a Marauder, or a colossal) to deal with really high ARM/boxes. |
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Post by splitdafur on Jun 30, 2017 3:23:26 GMT
sr2017, circle zone cant be control with jack u should trade wardog 4 widowmaker marksman he can be useful all game long and take zone easely . They have said that circle zones will only be controllable by UNITS when it goes live. Solos will only be able to control flags now. But the battle mechanics can score and your caster can score on everything. So I don't think it would be that big a of a problem for a list that plans to attrition any way. Our jack casters are Karchev, Harkavich and probably Old Witch2 when she comes out. Harkavich is the easiest of them to play, but he's easier to kill than you would think and has no damage buffs. So he's weak into shenanigans assassinations that can move your stuff around or generally get LoS in some way and you have no armour cracking outside behemoth in your list. These things are the main problem I am foreseeing for sure. I have run variations of this with widowmakers and manhunters but I don't know if it's worth it to worry that much? I do think the jacks can contest, is that correct? If so then I don't think scoring is going to be a huge focus for me and this list. I have thought about Karchev but I have not played him. I don't really think I want to play the version where he rolls for focus as I like to know what I have before I need it. I do think Hark suffers as the jacks get whittled away though for sure. He starts to get nervous when it's just him and his dog, ( which I will say I don't I want to trade for a marksman because the ability to walk out of combat and avoid back strikes has saved me more than the marksman has) and he also lacks a really strong finishing move unless I can push Behemoth super far up. The repo 3 is so fracking strong on speed 4 jacks that I think I would feel neutered without escort or boundless charge type spells as well. I can switch out Black Ivan and the mechanics for two juggernauts and get a 4th free solo however. Does anybody think that would be a good idea? Edit - karchev is not butcher.... told you I'm new  |
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Post by splitdafur on Jun 30, 2017 5:14:35 GMT
agghhhh I had a good post all ready to go and now it's gone... copy and paste is a fickle mistress First of all thanks for the awesome response! There is a lot of info here that I hadn't considered and some stuff that helped me narrow down my expectations a bit.. In relation to the Harkevich list: 1 - you are going to struggle against heavy armor. Harkevich has no damage buff and aside from Behemoth, you have no real melee damage dealers.
This is one problem that I have for sure. My jacks don't hit very hard and Everybody else like to drop my AMAZING armor down to 17 and then proceed to eat my jacks. I have some juggernauts that I can swap in place of the destroyers or I can drop Ivan and the mechanics for two juggernauts outright. I don't know if that makes any difference for this or not? 2 - Blast-immune infantry heavy lists. Things like Trenchers, Satyxis Raiders or Irusk2 lists (none of which are especially unusual). Your main anti-infantry is blast based (5-8 AoEs a turn), with Vent Steam for some variety. Satyxis and Irusk2 are probably the bigger problem, as their infantry can do enough damage to take down the jacks. This is a problem I have not encountered yet so I must admit it was not even on my mind when I built this list. Is there a simple way to get around this problem? Something that I am missing that could help me deal with this a little better? 3 - Claiming some zones in SR2017. Getting a unit or two of Eliminators into the list would help and stay in theme.
Eliminators are something that I swap in occasionally. They are tricky to use and seem to draw a lot of fire so I have failed to use them to their potential I am sure. More my fault than theirs. As for complementing, how different do you want to be? Infantry-heavy would obviously be very different, but that might be beyond budget. You also need a list that can play into heavy ARM, including things like Arcane Shielded Centurions or colossals. Harkevich is also quite a passive caster, who doesn't really get stuck in.
One of my biggest disappointments with a caster is when they cast a single spell and then end their turn. Hark has done this almost every turn I have used him. Occasionally he shoots his gun and sometimes he walks but generally he get in a good spot and just puts up mobility a couple times until he feats. Some possibilities:
1 - Butcher3 + Ruin gives an active caster who can also take on high ARM, with Ruin taking down upkeeps. Can be played in Jaws with Kayazy, or Winterguard Kommand for protection from shooting. You can use the Kodiaks well with him too.
This is a strong possibility for sure although the cost may be an issue. I don't currently own Butcher3 or Ruin and my wife just walked in to show me some baby clothes for the bun she's baking... 2 - Legion of Steel - infantry heavy, but hard-hitting. Add a caster with a melee damage buff to take it further. Strakhov2 is popular, but Irusk1 or 2 could also work. Love infantry. See above  LoS would be a lot for me to do now. I do have MoW ST x2, demo corps and bombs and have played them with Irusk1 for some fun. I also have a WGI deathstar I can use and some other support pieces. I think I would prefer to get into winterguard command over LoS as I enjoy shooting more than I should. I like Zerkova1 in Jaws, but I don't think it's a great complement to your list. She also lacks a damage buff (although Hex Blast can remove ARM buffing upkeeps). She could work interestingly in Legion of Steel for you, but I think you would need to include at least one powerful melee jack (I'd suggest a Juggernaut and a Marauder, or a colossal) to deal with really high ARM/boxes. I don't necesarily need to be in theme either. I love Merc's and have a valachev I want to use at least once. I own Eiryss Mage hunter and Kell Bailoch so far and definitely plan to use both soon. I would love to get some points on building a list around the idea of incorporating mercs into an armor cracking/ assassination style list! |
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Post by Netherby on Jun 30, 2017 6:53:02 GMT
I would definitely recommend getting those two juggernauts into the list to help with high armour stuff.
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Post by borderprince on Jun 30, 2017 15:21:28 GMT
First of all thanks for the awesome response! There is a lot of info here that I hadn't considered and some stuff that helped me narrow down my expectations a bit.. ... Some possibilities:
1 - Butcher3 + Ruin gives an active caster who can also take on high ARM, with Ruin taking down upkeeps. Can be played in Jaws with Kayazy, or Winterguard Kommand for protection from shooting. You can use the Kodiaks well with him too.
This is a strong possibility for sure although the cost may be an issue. I don't currently own Butcher3 or Ruin and my wife just walked in to show me some baby clothes for the bun she's baking... 2 - Legion of Steel - infantry heavy, but hard-hitting. Add a caster with a melee damage buff to take it further. Strakhov2 is popular, but Irusk1 or 2 could also work. Love infantry. See above LoS would be a lot for me to do now. I do have MoW ST x2, demo corps and bombs and have played them with Irusk1 for some fun. I also have a WGI deathstar I can use and some other support pieces. I think I would prefer to get into winterguard command over LoS as I enjoy shooting more than I should. I like Zerkova1 in Jaws, but I don't think it's a great complement to your list. She also lacks a damage buff (although Hex Blast can remove ARM buffing upkeeps). She could work interestingly in Legion of Steel for you, but I think you would need to include at least one powerful melee jack (I'd suggest a Juggernaut and a Marauder, or a colossal) to deal with really high ARM/boxes. I don't necesarily need to be in theme either. I love Merc's and have a valachev I want to use at least once. I own Eiryss Mage hunter and Kell Bailoch so far and definitely plan to use both soon. I would love to get some points on building a list around the idea of incorporating mercs into an armor cracking/ assassination style list! You're welcome! I'd second the suggestion of Juggernauts in the Harkevich list. Your suggestion of removing Black Ivan + Mechaniks and adding Juggernauts could work. I'd suggest the Widowmaker Marksman as the free solo. At present, Harkevich seems to work best as a melee jack caster (yes, we know it's counter-intuitive...). I'd consider dropping the Destroyers to Juggernauts and the mechaniks down to minimum. Add a unit of Eliminators too. Don't overcommit them. In scenario play their job is mostly not to die. If you like shooting, have you thought about Vlad1, Butcher1 or Irusk2? All of them buff shooting in different ways. Vlad has Hand of Fate for game-long reliability. Butcher1 has the one explosive Feat turn. Irusk2 lets you play some interesting LoS games using tactician. Vlad1 might be a bit too "one spell every turn" for you. Probably not a tournament winning list, but I've liked Butcher1 in Winterguard Kommand using a couple of WGI units (no rockets) and 6 jacks (Ruin, Juggernaut, 2xKodiak, 2xMarauder). Basic WGI shooting is not to be dismissed. POW14 CRAs are seriously good and fairly accurate, especially if you can reposition out of melee reponse range, and even more so if you get the extra damage die on Feat turn. But thinking about what you have, and if you like shooting, maybe this: Kozlov -Destroyer -Destroyer Max Mechaniks MoW Shocktroopers + UA MoW Shocktroopers + UA MoW Kovnik MoW Kovnik Widowmaker Marksman Eriyss1 Kell Bailoch Ragman Ragman gets the Shocktroopers to P+S16 in melee (P+S19 with Fury!) and the reach of the Shocktroopers let's them spread Dark Shroud around so other models (the jacks) can benefit. The UA means they can't be knockdown or pushed, while the Kovnik speeds them up (and so is more important than the UAs, if the budget is tight). There's a sniper core which can fairly reliably put 12 damage into any model a turn. You could run something similar with Irusk1, although he might not need the UAs due to his feat protecting from knockdown. In that case, you could add Widowmakers to really get the sniper boat going. And buy most baby clothes second hand if you can (often local facebook groups and the like). Saves money for more important things. They only grow out of them anyway. |
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LoS would be a lot for me to do now. I do have MoW ST x2, demo corps and bombs and have played them with Irusk1 for some fun. I also have a WGI deathstar I can use and some other support pieces.