|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 30, 2017 21:14:03 GMT
Double agree. I really love the tank conversions people are doing but they also seem a little out of place in my army. I'm shopping around right now for a good bear model to pull it since I can suspend disbelief a little more with one of those out front. I also don't think Tank Matches either. Tanks are also slow and don't impact. It also needs massive conversions to be more tank like. What it really looks more like is a train. Thats why my conversion will be a Dune Buggy+Train combo.
|
|
|
Post by tesoe on Jun 30, 2017 21:17:08 GMT
We need to kitbash it with the Farrow battle engine.
|
|
|
Post by steamwitch on Jun 30, 2017 21:41:23 GMT
Double agree. I really love the tank conversions people are doing but they also seem a little out of place in my army. I'm shopping around right now for a good bear model to pull it since I can suspend disbelief a little more with one of those out front. I also don't think Tank Matches either. Tanks are also slow and don't impact. It also needs massive conversions to be more tank like. What it really looks more like is a train. Thats why my conversion will be a Dune Buggy+Train combo. Look up a Gears of War centaur. It's easily one of my favorite models. And it sound like what you would want.
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Jul 2, 2017 21:10:16 GMT
An aside: I just want over tot the trolls board and would note the contrast. They have a page and a half of 'it's here' and 'rules clarifiaposts. We're on to page 4 with a mix of list experience and theory machine, kit bashing commentary, and witty repartee. Just sayin..
Main question: I'm interested in your batreps and actual caster experience. I've only tried the new GC with Vlad1 in WG theme. I like it. The trade off is another jack and/or more rockets/dudes. I am still unsure if it's "better" in this format, but it works and adds list versatility. Also, for folks like me that struggle a bit with activating 40 dudes on my turn it's a good alternative. .
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 2, 2017 21:13:14 GMT
An aside: I just want over tot the trolls board and would note the contrast. They have a page and a half of 'it's here' and 'rules clarifiaposts. We're on to page 4 with a mix of list experience and theory machine, kit bashing commentary, and witty repartee. Just sayin.. Main question: I'm interested in your batreps and actual caster experience. I've only tried the new GC with Vlad1 in WG theme. I like it. The trade off is another jack and/or more rockets/dudes. I am still unsure if it's "better" in this format, but it works and adds list versatility. Also, for folks like me that struggle a bit with activating 40 dudes on my turn it's a good alternative. . You can note my thoughts/experience with it and Silence of Death in a B3 drop against Ghost Fleet.
|
|
|
Post by skathrex on Jul 3, 2017 11:01:46 GMT
sand20go: Where can I read those? I thought about that interaction, but didn't like it in the End because hitting Deff 13 is exactly the spot where the odds of hitting become to low for my taste (3d6 needs a 7, which can miss and thus screw up the charge) Also after your first ride in it's most likely dead. Generally I really like it and although I haven't played a lot of Butcher1 the speed of the GC seems to help him quite a bit. Prefered place atm is Vlad1. With S&P you roll nice dmg and almost always hit. I want to try it with Strakov1 sometime. Occulation and Feat looks nice and make it a really good flanking piece with a charg range of 15,5"
|
|
|
Post by steamwitch on Jul 3, 2017 16:20:00 GMT
I just played a game with Zerkova2 using the CG. Telgesh mark on it is insane. The base size and SPD8 let me get aggressive with her spells like Hoarfrost and Spectral Fire. Later in the game it was getting all the hate so I had to put banishing ward on it. But over all I'm thinking this will be my flanking model for most of my list unless I would rather Mow Deakin. 40k folks will get it's a great distraction carnifex at least.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2017 18:55:19 GMT
sand20go : Where can I read those? I thought about that interaction, but didn't like it in the End because hitting Deff 13 is exactly the spot where the odds of hitting become to low for my taste (3d6 needs a 7, which can miss and thus screw up the charge) Also after your first ride in it's most likely dead. Generally I really like it and although I haven't played a lot of Butcher1 the speed of the GC seems to help him quite a bit. Prefered place atm is Vlad1. With S&P you roll nice dmg and almost always hit. I want to try it with Strakov1 sometime. Occulation and Feat looks nice and make it a really good flanking piece with a charg range of 15,5" Here is the thing. Lets say we set it up for a lawnmower move into a BUNCH of Revenents. Now 80% chance to get the hit off but 20% (as you note) to miss. So lets say you DO miss. He now has to commit how many Revs into kill 38 boxes? I don't have time to do the math but I have to believe it at LEAST 10 if not more even with charges and even with a parasite (probably about 6 with both parasite and D1 feat to get it to ARM 18) With a melee range of .5 that is a LOT of pirates nicely clumped up for...you know it....say it with me.....IMPENDING DOOOOOOM!!!! With of course silence of death applied on Butcher so that he mulches up a ton of them with the flashing blade applied. It is very likely she blew her feat - so now Butcher is MUCH safer even if he gets parasited. And we are still noting that it is 4 in 5 chance you DON"T miss and start the lawn mower going.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 3, 2017 18:56:24 GMT
sand20go : Where can I read those? I thought about that interaction, but didn't like it in the End because hitting Deff 13 is exactly the spot where the odds of hitting become to low for my taste (3d6 needs a 7, which can miss and thus screw up the charge) Also after your first ride in it's most likely dead. Generally I really like it and although I haven't played a lot of Butcher1 the speed of the GC seems to help him quite a bit. Prefered place atm is Vlad1. With S&P you roll nice dmg and almost always hit. I want to try it with Strakov1 sometime. Occulation and Feat looks nice and make it a really good flanking piece with a charg range of 15,5" Here is the thing. Lets say we set it up for a lawnmower move into a BUNCH of Revenents. Now 80% chance to get the hit off but 20% (as you note) to miss. So lets say you DO miss. He now has to commit how many Revs into kill 38 boxes? I don't have time to do the math but I have to believe it at LEAST 10 if not more even with charges and even with a parasite (probably about 6 with both parasite and D1 feat to get it to ARM 18) With a melee range of .5 that is a LOT of pirates nicely clumped up for...you know it....say it with me.....IMPENDING DOOOOOOM!!!! With of course silence of death applied on Butcher so that he mulches up a ton of them with the flashing blade applied. It is very likely she blew her feat - so now Butcher is MUCH safer even if he gets parasited. And we are still noting that it is 4 in 5 chance you DON"T miss and start the lawn mower
|
|
|
Post by steamwitch on Jul 4, 2017 0:12:19 GMT
sand20go : Where can I read those? I thought about that interaction, but didn't like it in the End because hitting Deff 13 is exactly the spot where the odds of hitting become to low for my taste (3d6 needs a 7, which can miss and thus screw up the charge) Also after your first ride in it's most likely dead. Generally I really like it and although I haven't played a lot of Butcher1 the speed of the GC seems to help him quite a bit. Prefered place atm is Vlad1. With S&P you roll nice dmg and almost always hit. I want to try it with Strakov1 sometime. Occulation and Feat looks nice and make it a really good flanking piece with a charg range of 15,5" Here is the thing. Lets say we set it up for a lawnmower move into a BUNCH of Revenents. Now 80% chance to get the hit off but 20% (as you note) to miss. So lets say you DO miss. He now has to commit how many Revs into kill 38 boxes? I don't have time to do the math but I have to believe it at LEAST 10 if not more even with charges and even with a parasite (probably about 6 with both parasite and D1 feat to get it to ARM 18) With a melee range of .5 that is a LOT of pirates nicely clumped up for...you know it....say it with me.....IMPENDING DOOOOOOM!!!! With of course silence of death applied on Butcher so that he mulches up a ton of them with the flashing blade applied. It is very likely she blew her feat - so now Butcher is MUCH safer even if he gets parasited. And we are still noting that it is 4 in 5 chance you DON"T miss and start the lawn mower going. Doesn't Ruin have Arcane Vortex to stop parasite now?
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 4, 2017 0:54:53 GMT
only if he has an enemy soul and no souls in Ghost fleet ;-(
|
|
|
Post by steamwitch on Jul 4, 2017 2:54:28 GMT
only if he has an enemy soul and no souls in Ghost fleet ;-( Ah I am used to it not costing soul. And you are right looks like the only way to use Vortex is to camp souls. Odd.
|
|
|
Post by skathrex on Jul 4, 2017 10:52:20 GMT
sand20go if you put it that way it sounds promissing, but I think your numbers are a bit off. The question is how deep can you go, or do you just ignore the shots and just go all the way not matter if the charge fails? if you can get the leader it might be worth to charge and remove him. Depending on the Unit and spacing you may not even need to go in afterward with butcher if you got the whole Unit (or 2 leaders). Maybe there is a place with Butcher3 I would need to test it though. There is definatly a place with sorcha2 however
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Jul 4, 2017 14:30:20 GMT
sand20go if you put it that way it sounds promissing, but I think your numbers are a bit off. The question is how deep can you go, or do you just ignore the shots and just go all the way not matter if the charge fails? if you can get the leader it might be worth to charge and remove him. Depending on the Unit and spacing you may not even need to go in afterward with butcher if you got the whole Unit (or 2 leaders). Maybe there is a place with Butcher3 I would need to test it though. There is definatly a place with sorcha2 however 7 and greater - I looked it up on my probability chart but it was late and I might have misread. I just think that Sorscha2 is SO challenged in the new meta. losing freezing grip _AND_ the rewording of her feat to be an aura is just killer. You essentially are playing against MANY armies WITHOUT a feat because you just can't afford to be that close. No freezing grip means limited crowd control. But hey - it is 4th of july - I will drop her in the WG theme and see how she does with the new fun carriage.
|
|
|
Post by skathrex on Jul 5, 2017 6:55:12 GMT
There was someone in the CID who compiled the odds of how the probability looks depending on the amount of Modells you impact their deff and armor.
I just copied it here:
If ARM <16 Only DEF matters.
DEF 1 Kill 2 Kill 3 Kill 4 Kill 5 Kill 6 Kill 7 Kill 8 Kill 9 Kill 10 Kill
10 99% 99% 98% 97% 96% 96% 95% 94% 94% 93%
11 98% 95% 93% 91% 88% 86% 84% 82% 80% 78%
12 95% 91% 86% 82% 78% 75% 71% 68% 64% 61%
13 91% 84% 76% 70% 64% 58% 53% 49% 44% 41%
14 84% 71% 60% 51% 43% 36% 31% 26% 22% 18%
15 73% 53% 39% 29% 21% 15% 11% 8% 6% 4%
16 63% 39% 25% 15% 10% 6% 4% 2% 1% 1%
17 52% 27% 14% 7% 4% 2% 1% 1% 0% 0%
If ARM >= 16 ARM and DEF Matter
DEF ARM 1 Kill 2 Kill 3 Kill 4 Kill 5 Kill 6 Kill 7 Kill 8 Kill 9 Kill 10 Kill
10 16 100% 100% 100% 99% 99% 99% 99% 99% 99% 99%
10 17 99% 98% 97% 96% 95% 95% 94% 93% 92% 91%
10 18 97% 95% 92% 90% 88% 85% 83% 81% 79% 77%
10 19 95% 89% 85% 80% 76% 71% 68% 64% 60% 57%
10 20 92% 84% 77% 71% 65% 60% 55% 50% 46% 42%
10 21 84% 71% 59% 50% 42% 35% 29% 25% 21% 17%
11 16 98% 97% 95% 93% 92% 90% 88% 87% 85% 84%
11 17 98% 95% 93% 91% 89% 87% 84% 82% 80% 79%
11 18 96% 92% 89% 85% 82% 79% 76% 73% 70% 68%
11 19 93% 87% 82% 76% 71% 67% 62% 58% 54% 51%
11 20 89% 80% 71% 64% 57% 51% 45% 41% 36% 32%
11 21 81% 66% 54% 44% 35% 29% 23% 19% 15% 13%
12 16 95% 91% 86% 82% 78% 74% 71% 67% 64% 61%
12 17 94% 89% 84% 79% 74% 70% 66% 62% 59% 55%
12 18 92% 85% 78% 72% 67% 61% 56% 52% 48% 44%
12 19 91% 83% 75% 69% 62% 57% 52% 47% 43% 39%
12 20 86% 73% 63% 54% 46% 39% 34% 29% 25% 21%
12 21 80% 65% 52% 42% 34% 27% 22% 17% 14% 11%
13 16 91% 82% 75% 68% 61% 56% 50% 46% 41% 37%
13 17 90% 80% 72% 64% 58% 52% 46% 41% 37% 33%
13 18 89% 79% 71% 63% 56% 50% 44% 39% 35% 31%
13 19 87% 76% 66% 57% 50% 43% 37% 33% 28% 25%
13 20 82% 67% 54% 44% 36% 29% 24% 20% 16% 13%
13 21 77% 59% 46% 35% 27% 21% 16% 13% 10% 7%
14 16 84% 70% 58% 49% 41% 34% 28% 24% 20% 16%
14 17 82% 67% 55% 45% 37% 30% 25% 20% 17% 14%
14 18 81% 66% 54% 44% 36% 29% 24% 19% 16% 13%
14 19 80% 63% 51% 40% 32% 26% 20% 16% 13% 10%
14 20 77% 59% 45% 35% 27% 21% 16% 12% 9% 7%
14 21 70% 49% 34% 24% 17% 12% 8% 6% 4% 3%
15 16 75% 56% 42% 32% 24% 18% 13% 10% 7% 6%
15 17 74% 54% 40% 29% 22% 16% 12% 9% 6% 5%
15 18 73% 53% 38% 28% 20% 15% 11% 8% 6% 4%
15 19 69% 48% 33% 23% 16% 11% 8% 5% 4% 2%
15 20 65% 42% 28% 18% 12% 8% 5% 3% 2% 1%
15 21 61% 38% 23% 14% 9% 5% 3% 2% 1% 1%
As you can see the probability of killing 5 models with def 13 isn't that high.
And when looking at Sorscha2 you have to distance yourself from what she could do before and focus on what she can do now. Which isn't that much, but still she can delete boxes pretty good if you force your opponent to come into you.
|
|