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Post by samuraijaques on Jun 24, 2017 21:22:20 GMT
Hello, I am just starting out and I am looking at expanding my army to a more standard 75 points. I am extremely partial to warjacks, especially those of the motherland. Warjacks are basically the whole reason I got into this game so I would like my list to have a lot of them. My question is, How many jacks is too many?
For instance, is this a good list?
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
(Karchev 1) Karchev the Terrible [+30]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Kodiak [13]
- Kodiak [13]
- Marauder [10]
- Marauder [10]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
- Behemoth [25]
Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)]
Widowmaker Marksman [0(4)]
Battle Mechaniks (max) [5]
Battle Mechaniks (max) [5]
Or is that just too many jacks?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jun 24, 2017 21:27:23 GMT
About 30 should do it. Skip the whole "Fight the game" thing and just throw metal figures at your opponent till they pass out. Then claim all their stuff in the name of the motherland. If you only have access to plastics you may need to use a heavy bag full of them.
On a more serious not Kharchev can support 6 jacks just fine, especially with forge seer support.
Some people are against mechanics, but I like em just fine.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 24, 2017 21:41:40 GMT
Well Karchev can bring 11 Berserkers along for the ride. So I'd say 12 is too many.
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Post by K23 on Jun 24, 2017 22:32:50 GMT
I play Karchev jack armies almost every game since mad dog times.
I used to take 100 points of jacks with small unit of mechanics being the only exception. You might as well consider some sort of infantry screen or even taking Butcher1 if you are willing to build a more universal list.
Speaking of your list, I'd definitely assign the Behemoth to Karchev himself in order to use his feat and spells, that are limited to his battle group. I'd also reduce mechanics to one minimal unit and try to fit another jack in. Actually, dropping Behemoth and reducing the mechanics will get you 3 heavies and a solo, and I find it a better version.
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Post by samuraijaques on Jun 24, 2017 22:56:54 GMT
Lol, alrighty then. Glad to hear I can just field them with impunity.
@k23 The reason Behemoth is assigned to the greylord is because of how fantastically he works with the jack marshal rules and just the 1 focus from empower. 1 focus is enough to boost attack and damage rolls for one of his bombards thanks to powerful attack. He doesn't get the boosted melee damage rolls from karchev during feat turn but he still gets magic weapons, and "Crush" actually increases his damage by almost as much as an extra die would and can be used any number of turns in a row. He also gets a great ranged buff from "Take Aim" that Karchev wouldn't otherwise be able to provide him. The main thing I'm missing out on is access to Karchev's spells which is definitely a detriment. But one that I feel is worth it. But I might change my mind after I get some more experience with him. Also he is just such a sweet looking model that I would be very hard pressed to ever not take him.
you think 1 min unit of battle mechaniks is going to be enough? It seems like at that point I might as well just not take them at all.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 24, 2017 23:28:54 GMT
Well you miss out on the feat (but Behemoth is already magical with a FS) and you miss out on battle charged. But you can still trigger Road to War as it isn't battlegroup.
However, you must be wary of the one thing a Jack marshalled Jack cannot do. And that is shake effects.
You have to shake in the control phase, so if Behemoth is knocked down, stationary or blind, it can't shake it with focus. That means you'll suffer really bad into certain armies, like Cryx and Ret.
As for the mechs, there are plenty of things in the game that can take out a heavy in one turn, but you only need a few mechs to bring crippled systems back online. Generally they are points better spent elsewhere.
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Post by The Snark Knight on Jun 24, 2017 23:42:27 GMT
If you want bring a bunch of jacks without feeling strapped for focus, throw Marauders, Kodiaks, maybe some Devastators in. Looks like you've got some in your list already. They don't really have any problems doing their thing without a lot of extra focus.
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Post by K23 on Jun 25, 2017 0:18:45 GMT
samuraijaques see your point about Behemoth. If you feel that way you should definitely give it a try, though I still consider the overall durability of a list an important feature of competitive Karchev. Yet the Behemoth looks gorgeous, especially for those who like their jacks red and heavy) Speaking of mechanics, it appears to me that they have two main purposess: 1) Keeping Karchev safe from occasional damage 2) Restoring jacks to full functionality for a turn It seems quite unlikely that you'll have an opportunity to really rebuild something even with two units, and 10 points seem too much. Well, it's only my experience anyway, and your meta might differ a lot.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jun 25, 2017 1:01:36 GMT
samuraijaques Mechanics are fine, but very often I find if my opponent's are attacking my Jacks they are usually destroying them, so I can't repair anything anyway. A small unit is usually more than enough to keep a ranged jack running, just in case someone has been pinging it.
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Post by samuraijaques on Jun 25, 2017 1:27:55 GMT
Are the forge seers worth it without marshaling with them? They seem pretty powerful even without a jack to play with. Especially for free. Or maybe I should switch behemoth to karchev's unit and then put something else like a kodiak or a maurader with them? Actually two forge seers with a marauder each seem like great tough scoring units and could be used to slam models closer to karchev and the bulk of my army. Alternatively I could just run them around as solos as they can still give warjacks focus even if they are not marshaling them.
Or I could switch them out for any of the other free units I get from JotW. The forge seers just seem like the most valuable choice.
As for the mechaniks, I have been convinced. I'll drop them down to a min unit. Use the remaining 7 points for something. No idea what. Maybe just drop to a max unit of them and a unit of eliminators? I have always wanted to try them.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jun 25, 2017 1:58:23 GMT
Eliminators are awesome! Any time you need 5pts to fill out a list, Eliminators are almost never wrong. I know that there are folks who don't like Behemoth with a Seer, but I think one running it with the second available for the other power up is actually really good. He gets magic weapons and can comfortably lag behind the rest of Karchev's battle group, which is where he should ultimately be anyway, as I think he should be one of the final pieces to trade. All the while he is putting out his bombards to start the damage or finish off what the marauders have slammed or the Kodiaks have smash and grabbed. Btw, the bonus to his damage from "crush" really is pretty close to an extra die, like he would get from Karchev's FEAT, so the only loss is from Karchev's spells, which is a loss, but I think consistent Magic Weapon especially on the ranged attacks is pretty good.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jun 25, 2017 6:37:00 GMT
samuraijaques: I like your username. Just an FYI: While Karchev can basically run as many jaques as he wants (and everyone has answered your question based on that qualifier), most of our other casters want a more balanced army, so when you do try other casters be prepared to mix in some infantry.
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Post by samuraijaques on Jun 25, 2017 6:50:30 GMT
Would this be better?
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf
(Karchev 1) Karchev the Terrible [+30] - Behemoth [25] - Juggernaut [12] - Juggernaut [12] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Marauder [10] - Marauder [10] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Widowmaker Marksman [0(4)] Battle Mechaniks (max) [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5]
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jun 25, 2017 15:05:53 GMT
No such thing as too many jacks in Motherland. 6 is bare minimum in jack-focused list, 9 is physical limit unless you waste money on some extreme Marauder limit. And Berserker chassis are bad now, don't spam them.
2 units of mechs on the other hand is too many mechs.
Since we're entering the world of sr 2017 I recommend removing 1 jack for a widowmakers/2x elims/kayazi unit.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Jun 25, 2017 17:57:34 GMT
Are you no longer capable of carrying your army to and from where you game because of the weight or volume of all of your warjacks? Does whatever you carry your army in break due to the weight or volume of all of your warjacks? Do people point and stare at you due to all of your warjacks? (Not for any other reason.) Have you had 3 or more people suggest psychological counseling for your large number of warjacks? (Not for any other reason.)
Until you answer yes to any of these questions I suggest that you continue to get more warjacks.
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