Post by skathrex on Jun 19, 2017 10:00:59 GMT
Hello,
I wanted to share my first experience with the new changes to the SR17 package. (Mercy rule to 5 VP, Solos only score flags not Zones).
We had a tournament on Saturday that decided to use these rules. It was a small 12 man tournament which ended after 3 Rounds (sadly). Fair to say no one was specially tooled for that.
I brought my Sorscha1 List to counter GF (or at least that what I thought it should do) and debated some time between Strakov1 in Jaws and Strakov2 in LoS. But I had a good feeling Strakov2 could be really good in the future and wanted to test him, so I went with this:
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Legion of Steel
(Strakhov 2) Assault Kommander Strakhov [+22]
- Kodiak [13]
- Kodiak [13]
Iron Fang Kovnik [0(4)]
Iron Fang Kovnik [0(4)]
Uhlan Kovnik Markov [7]
Black Dragons (max) [17]
- Black Dragon Officer & Standard [0(4)]
Great Bears of the Gallowswood [9]
Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15]
- Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [4]
Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15]
- Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [4]
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
(Sorscha 1) Kommander Sorscha [+29]
- Behemoth [25]
- Ruin [17]
- Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Kell Bailoch [5]
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Kossite Woodsmen (min) [7]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (max) [13]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Some explanation to my Sorscha1 List:
The Idea is to pose a great Assasination thread with enough shooting and Reinhold to disalbe Dennys Stealth. That should lead to her playing defensivly and not beeing able to feat well. In addition Sorscha should be relativly safe with orin. Chickens of course are still a priority.
Furthermore Sorscha needs to keep her feat (to impose the Assasination thread) and Freezing Grip the pirates (starting on the flank).
Kossites are there to shoot the Pirates that are usually left behind so together with freezing grip and Rifle Corps I am able to take whole units of the table.
Ruin should threaten the Wraith Engine while Kell and orin should keep the Blackbanes in check.
Thats the theory. Round 1 saw me paired against Ghost Fleet with Tim Bankys List. So I had the the opportunity to test my theories in a tournament setting.
Spoiler Alert...I lost...
So what went wrong. Well all plans are nice until you go for battle. Problem was in my planning I forgot the new SR17 terrain setting so we had a building in the middle where denny could hide without a problem.
Further obstructions made getting the right LOS hard and together with the new LOS rules, Stalkers and all out running from the GF I was feld under a lot of pressure even with me going first.
It started well Turn2.
We played Recon2 which meant we had objectives that we could reach fairly easily. I took Armory of course and Behemoth nearly got blackbane and a lucky deviation took out the Arcnode from a chicken. Sorscha frooze a Unit of Pirates and together with the Kossites I was able to take out a full Unit of Pirates.
That was all on 1 Flank. On the other one he was nice enough to hang back and not pressure me to much. Mostly because ruin was hanging out there.
Then 2! little positioning Errors cost me the game.
He looked at my board and at Sorscha (who Windrushed back), walked forward and feated on her (and half of my army). The Chicken with the Arcnode had up ran into position before and thats where my first mistake came into play. Orin was 3" from everything important, but sadly I had positioned 1 of my Riflecorp about 5" in front of Orin, because I wanted to block landing spots for the Wraith Engine...well I learned that i can't counter the Venom that is aimed at that Rifle Corps dude, but it can kill my Orin...with Orin now dead he cast Scourge on the objective right in front of me...and Sorscha was about 1 mm to close so she got clipped, KD and the rest is obvious.
Summary: The tech works, but its still such a hard matchup for Sorscha. There is so much stuff that you have to watch out for. Even with the dmg on the left flank he could have easily wiped the whole WGRC with the remaining Blackbanes, Stalker etc. I have to retool the list or switch to something different. The Assasination plan doesn't work most of the time because of the Building. Which means I can and should probably feat just to controll the rest of the pirates. There are other things but more to that later.
Game 2 was against Trolls with Doomy3 and a Beast brick (Rök, 2 EBT, 2 Mauler, Axer and some other stuff). I chose Strakov2 since his other list had Gunny and a MK so Sorscha would have been bad in both matchups. I won the roll of and we played Spread the Net.
He played a denied flank and I had deployed aggressively towards his "HomeZone".
Well this one is told rather quick. I advanced moved the Fangs closest to his Zone. put quicken on the BlackDragons that were also close to his Zone and ran everything forward.
Because I was so fast he had to run too, to get in his Zones. But that was also in my Threadrange so he feated defensivly. (Btw that feat is a real pain).
Since he wtill was very far back I had the choice to either pull back and wait out his turn or try to rush scenario. And that is what I did.
I charge ran everything forward, no Shildwall, just the minifeat for the Black Dragons, and spread out. Every Beast was jammed and I had spread out in such a way that he had no trample landing spots. He managed to clear his zone at first, but also had to contest the middle zone. (I had a Kovnik at my flag and a Kodiak in my Zone, while some Pikeman contested his flag against some whelps). I countercharged Markov into his Zone, outside of the reach of his EBT and contested his Zone. Scored 2 at the end of his turn, he scored none. After that I just had to kill his 1 EBT with nearly everything I got and go to 5.
Scenario Victory by Turn 3, that was quick and I don't think he could have done much different.
Game 3 was against Menoth with High Reclaimer and Sevy2 (with 2 Reckoner, 2 Reedemer, Arcnode and some other stuff). We both had a really hard time to figure out what to drop. I decided to go for Strakov2 since Sorscha really can't shoot Sevis Army (or him, thx to 3 shieldguards) and I am not sure Sorscha is good against High Reclaimers clouds.
He choose Sevi2 because he saw dudes everywhere.
The story is much the same, this time we played Standoff. I won the roll again and run everything forward. he moved up a bit and killed 3 Pikeman threw driffts. We had a obstacle in the middle again (same table as round1) and this time Strakov went behind it and feated while holding my own zone. The Black Dragons had gotten advanced moved and with IR they just shieldwalled in the left zone. The left kodiak ran into his Zone. In the right Zone both Units of iron Fangs mini Feated to move up more aggressivly (1 charging a jack to block its path).
My opponent went deep into the tank and saw just a slim chance. But all in all he wasn't prepared. He dmged both Kodiaks without taking anything out (both had a about half left) and Killed a few Iron Fangs on the right.
He had managed to contest both circular Zones so I just got 1 point (his zone was still contested by my Kodiak.
My turn was pretty clear again, kill the 1 infantry model in the left Zone, keep holding mine and contesting his. Kill the 1 Jack in the right Zone (killed 2 jacks there) and destroy the objective with Great Bears.
Again victory with 5 CP pretty fast turn 3.
Even without the Scenario victory I don't think my opponent would have stood a chance. He just couldn't handle all that armor.
Summary and conclusions:
GF just go a whole lot better in SR17 imo. Gunlines got a lot worse. Now with 5 CP Gunlines have to contest a lot more than before. Additionally it feels like there is a lot more LOS blocking terrain on the table which poses a problem for thinks that need to aim or can't move fast.
Strakov2 or Zerkova1 in LoS could be really beastly with rushin Scenario. Question is how the match goes when we have to go second.
Generally speaking (and with my Sorscha1 list in mind) If we don't go all out for close combat we need some for of contesting Pieces, and if we go all out, maybe 1-2 scoring pieces are nice.
Currently I am reevaluating these picks:
Devestator: The original contesting piece. Not bad against GF and just all around good against so many things right now. Not your heavy beater of course but an excellent tank.
Eliminators: Same, but even more valuable now that the whole Unit has to be in the Zone to score. If the Unit is 2 modells thats easy. Had quite a problem with my pikeman. They just had to "wait" in the Zone.
Widowmakers: Sames as above just better for defensive play
Marksman: Really nice on Spread the Net just to hang back and score.
I am not quite sure if I like the changes they made to SR17. Scenario is now really life for sure, but I feel we run into the old Problems of Scenario Rushing.
Ghost fleet is still really hard to play against. So much pressure on all fronts. The only thing working against them is the clock, but that won't help against good players.
Normally you want to shoot the pirates, but since they don't care if they die they are quite fast. The terrain is often a problem too, maybe something faste like sprayponies really is the way to go here. And with all the Solos and light Jacks their scenario game is really strong.
Also this tourney was fun and very edjucative I throws my planning back completely. I know I still like the strakovs but I don't think Wg-Theme is our strongest tier anymore. I think Jaws is at least equal, and LoS is close behind. Have to test this against Cygnar though. We had no Cygnar at the tournament.
what is your imperssion?
Have you played with the new rules yet?
I wanted to share my first experience with the new changes to the SR17 package. (Mercy rule to 5 VP, Solos only score flags not Zones).
We had a tournament on Saturday that decided to use these rules. It was a small 12 man tournament which ended after 3 Rounds (sadly). Fair to say no one was specially tooled for that.
I brought my Sorscha1 List to counter GF (or at least that what I thought it should do) and debated some time between Strakov1 in Jaws and Strakov2 in LoS. But I had a good feeling Strakov2 could be really good in the future and wanted to test him, so I went with this:
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Legion of Steel
(Strakhov 2) Assault Kommander Strakhov [+22]
- Kodiak [13]
- Kodiak [13]
Iron Fang Kovnik [0(4)]
Iron Fang Kovnik [0(4)]
Uhlan Kovnik Markov [7]
Black Dragons (max) [17]
- Black Dragon Officer & Standard [0(4)]
Great Bears of the Gallowswood [9]
Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15]
- Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [4]
Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15]
- Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [4]
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
(Sorscha 1) Kommander Sorscha [+29]
- Behemoth [25]
- Ruin [17]
- Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Kell Bailoch [5]
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Kossite Woodsmen (min) [7]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (max) [13]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Some explanation to my Sorscha1 List:
The Idea is to pose a great Assasination thread with enough shooting and Reinhold to disalbe Dennys Stealth. That should lead to her playing defensivly and not beeing able to feat well. In addition Sorscha should be relativly safe with orin. Chickens of course are still a priority.
Furthermore Sorscha needs to keep her feat (to impose the Assasination thread) and Freezing Grip the pirates (starting on the flank).
Kossites are there to shoot the Pirates that are usually left behind so together with freezing grip and Rifle Corps I am able to take whole units of the table.
Ruin should threaten the Wraith Engine while Kell and orin should keep the Blackbanes in check.
Thats the theory. Round 1 saw me paired against Ghost Fleet with Tim Bankys List. So I had the the opportunity to test my theories in a tournament setting.
Spoiler Alert...I lost...
So what went wrong. Well all plans are nice until you go for battle. Problem was in my planning I forgot the new SR17 terrain setting so we had a building in the middle where denny could hide without a problem.
Further obstructions made getting the right LOS hard and together with the new LOS rules, Stalkers and all out running from the GF I was feld under a lot of pressure even with me going first.
It started well Turn2.
We played Recon2 which meant we had objectives that we could reach fairly easily. I took Armory of course and Behemoth nearly got blackbane and a lucky deviation took out the Arcnode from a chicken. Sorscha frooze a Unit of Pirates and together with the Kossites I was able to take out a full Unit of Pirates.
That was all on 1 Flank. On the other one he was nice enough to hang back and not pressure me to much. Mostly because ruin was hanging out there.
Then 2! little positioning Errors cost me the game.
He looked at my board and at Sorscha (who Windrushed back), walked forward and feated on her (and half of my army). The Chicken with the Arcnode had up ran into position before and thats where my first mistake came into play. Orin was 3" from everything important, but sadly I had positioned 1 of my Riflecorp about 5" in front of Orin, because I wanted to block landing spots for the Wraith Engine...well I learned that i can't counter the Venom that is aimed at that Rifle Corps dude, but it can kill my Orin...with Orin now dead he cast Scourge on the objective right in front of me...and Sorscha was about 1 mm to close so she got clipped, KD and the rest is obvious.
Summary: The tech works, but its still such a hard matchup for Sorscha. There is so much stuff that you have to watch out for. Even with the dmg on the left flank he could have easily wiped the whole WGRC with the remaining Blackbanes, Stalker etc. I have to retool the list or switch to something different. The Assasination plan doesn't work most of the time because of the Building. Which means I can and should probably feat just to controll the rest of the pirates. There are other things but more to that later.
Game 2 was against Trolls with Doomy3 and a Beast brick (Rök, 2 EBT, 2 Mauler, Axer and some other stuff). I chose Strakov2 since his other list had Gunny and a MK so Sorscha would have been bad in both matchups. I won the roll of and we played Spread the Net.
He played a denied flank and I had deployed aggressively towards his "HomeZone".
Well this one is told rather quick. I advanced moved the Fangs closest to his Zone. put quicken on the BlackDragons that were also close to his Zone and ran everything forward.
Because I was so fast he had to run too, to get in his Zones. But that was also in my Threadrange so he feated defensivly. (Btw that feat is a real pain).
Since he wtill was very far back I had the choice to either pull back and wait out his turn or try to rush scenario. And that is what I did.
I charge ran everything forward, no Shildwall, just the minifeat for the Black Dragons, and spread out. Every Beast was jammed and I had spread out in such a way that he had no trample landing spots. He managed to clear his zone at first, but also had to contest the middle zone. (I had a Kovnik at my flag and a Kodiak in my Zone, while some Pikeman contested his flag against some whelps). I countercharged Markov into his Zone, outside of the reach of his EBT and contested his Zone. Scored 2 at the end of his turn, he scored none. After that I just had to kill his 1 EBT with nearly everything I got and go to 5.
Scenario Victory by Turn 3, that was quick and I don't think he could have done much different.
Game 3 was against Menoth with High Reclaimer and Sevy2 (with 2 Reckoner, 2 Reedemer, Arcnode and some other stuff). We both had a really hard time to figure out what to drop. I decided to go for Strakov2 since Sorscha really can't shoot Sevis Army (or him, thx to 3 shieldguards) and I am not sure Sorscha is good against High Reclaimers clouds.
He choose Sevi2 because he saw dudes everywhere.
The story is much the same, this time we played Standoff. I won the roll again and run everything forward. he moved up a bit and killed 3 Pikeman threw driffts. We had a obstacle in the middle again (same table as round1) and this time Strakov went behind it and feated while holding my own zone. The Black Dragons had gotten advanced moved and with IR they just shieldwalled in the left zone. The left kodiak ran into his Zone. In the right Zone both Units of iron Fangs mini Feated to move up more aggressivly (1 charging a jack to block its path).
My opponent went deep into the tank and saw just a slim chance. But all in all he wasn't prepared. He dmged both Kodiaks without taking anything out (both had a about half left) and Killed a few Iron Fangs on the right.
He had managed to contest both circular Zones so I just got 1 point (his zone was still contested by my Kodiak.
My turn was pretty clear again, kill the 1 infantry model in the left Zone, keep holding mine and contesting his. Kill the 1 Jack in the right Zone (killed 2 jacks there) and destroy the objective with Great Bears.
Again victory with 5 CP pretty fast turn 3.
Even without the Scenario victory I don't think my opponent would have stood a chance. He just couldn't handle all that armor.
Summary and conclusions:
GF just go a whole lot better in SR17 imo. Gunlines got a lot worse. Now with 5 CP Gunlines have to contest a lot more than before. Additionally it feels like there is a lot more LOS blocking terrain on the table which poses a problem for thinks that need to aim or can't move fast.
Strakov2 or Zerkova1 in LoS could be really beastly with rushin Scenario. Question is how the match goes when we have to go second.
Generally speaking (and with my Sorscha1 list in mind) If we don't go all out for close combat we need some for of contesting Pieces, and if we go all out, maybe 1-2 scoring pieces are nice.
Currently I am reevaluating these picks:
Devestator: The original contesting piece. Not bad against GF and just all around good against so many things right now. Not your heavy beater of course but an excellent tank.
Eliminators: Same, but even more valuable now that the whole Unit has to be in the Zone to score. If the Unit is 2 modells thats easy. Had quite a problem with my pikeman. They just had to "wait" in the Zone.
Widowmakers: Sames as above just better for defensive play
Marksman: Really nice on Spread the Net just to hang back and score.
I am not quite sure if I like the changes they made to SR17. Scenario is now really life for sure, but I feel we run into the old Problems of Scenario Rushing.
Ghost fleet is still really hard to play against. So much pressure on all fronts. The only thing working against them is the clock, but that won't help against good players.
Normally you want to shoot the pirates, but since they don't care if they die they are quite fast. The terrain is often a problem too, maybe something faste like sprayponies really is the way to go here. And with all the Solos and light Jacks their scenario game is really strong.
Also this tourney was fun and very edjucative I throws my planning back completely. I know I still like the strakovs but I don't think Wg-Theme is our strongest tier anymore. I think Jaws is at least equal, and LoS is close behind. Have to test this against Cygnar though. We had no Cygnar at the tournament.
what is your imperssion?
Have you played with the new rules yet?
