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Post by Disappointed on Jun 19, 2017 8:09:52 GMT
I'm really starting to dislike themelists. I feel forced to play a theme list for the free points or falling behind against my opposition. For Cryx this means I am forced to play Ghost fleet if I want to have an all comers list that has a chance. There lists has killed any creativity to build your own lists. Ghost fleet for example feels like 90% premade.
Tired of ghostfleet all the time, everytime
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Post by tiberius on Jun 19, 2017 10:58:52 GMT
I am sorry to hear you have that problem. I have the opposite one where no one in my meta really wants to play theme forces so in good conscience I rarely do either. They don't like playing scenarios either so we usually only do caster kill and play whatever you want.
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182 
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Post by Kavrae on Jun 19, 2017 13:46:36 GMT
By "has a chance" do you mean something that has a chance to win an official tournament? Or has a reasonable chance to win a local casual game? Because those are two completely different scopes.
If you mean high level tournaments, then yes, there are a lot of Ghost Fleets out there. But there are also quite a few non-theme armies having a lot of success. Seeing quite a few Gaspy3, Witch Coven, and Skarre lists out there that don't rely on the Revenants. You're also not going to want an "all comers" list anyway. My one disappointment here is that we're not seeing much in the way of Infernal Machines, but oh well.
If you mean local games where you just want an even chance of winning with an "all comers" list? That honestly seems more like a "you" problem because there's plenty of viable options even without touching themes. Asphyxious3 with Satyxis and Seethers. Terminus running Infernal Machines to jam things up with Mechanithralls before he gets there. The Dark Host theme coming out is fun and powerful. You have options.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Jun 19, 2017 14:07:39 GMT
I mean, yes Ghost Fleet is a 1 dimensional list, but it's by no means mandatory to play Cryx competitively. I personally play it because it allows me to play the models that got me into the game while playing a style I like. If Ghost Fleet isn't your thing try playing Coven, Scaverous, or one of our jack casters. They all play well out of Ghost Fleet.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 20, 2017 6:38:39 GMT
My one disappointment here is that we're not seeing much in the way of Infernal Machines, but oh well. That's because Infernal Machines is more of a "fun" theme I think. Because the benefits don't really add up, you get a bonus that applies to Warjacks so you want to maximise those, but you get free points for taking Thralls, which cuts too deep into your jack points. And even then, the benefit for the jacks is actually kind of lack luster. Some lists in that theme are definitely a blast to play, but I don't see it getting much track competitively. |
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on Jun 20, 2017 12:30:51 GMT
My one disappointment here is that we're not seeing much in the way of Infernal Machines, but oh well. That's because Infernal Machines is more of a "fun" theme I think. Because the benefits don't really add up, you get a bonus that applies to Warjacks so you want to maximise those, but you get free points for taking Thralls, which cuts too deep into your jack points. And even then, the benefit for the jacks is actually kind of lack luster. Some lists in that theme are definitely a blast to play, but I don't see it getting much track competitively. That's fair, and I'm perfectly fine with having a few "fun" themes that don't see tournament play. So long as we have enough competitive ones to counterbalance it. |
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Jun 20, 2017 14:01:46 GMT
I feel like the real reason we don't see much Infernal Machines is due to cost. I feel like an optimal competitive Infernal Machines list would look something like: conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_-0w0R1ad-1f1D1KdQ1D1KdQ1D1KdQ1D1KdQ1D1K1D1KCryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Infernal Machines (Goreshade 2) Goreshade the Cursed [+28] - Defiler [8] - Inflictor [13] - Nightwretch [7] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [0(3)] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [0(3)] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [0(3)] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [3] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] While that list is really good it's also over $300 in just Brute Thralls. |
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Kavrae
Junior Strategist
Posts: 182
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Post by Kavrae on Jun 20, 2017 14:38:23 GMT
I feel like the real reason we don't see much Infernal Machines is due to cost. I feel like an optimal competitive Infernal Machines list would look something like: conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_-0w0R1ad-1f1D1KdQ1D1KdQ1D1KdQ1D1KdQ1D1K1D1KCryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Infernal Machines (Goreshade 2) Goreshade the Cursed [+28] - Defiler [8] - Inflictor [13] - Nightwretch [7] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [0(3)] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [0(3)] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [0(3)] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [3] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] While that list is really good it's also over $300 in just Brute Thralls. I'm not sure I would want to go whole-hog on mechanithralls. Depending on matchups, Bile Thralls can be great now that they can pick their matchup with AD (plus Brute Thrall protection). Carrion Thralls work well for that initial stalling tactic (+1 SPD + fly) or as finishers for heavy models. And Soulhunters (which strangely count) are always a good addition for removing infantry in waves. I've also been playing around with some lists that go light on the thralls, using them only as an Ambush unit (min unit with 3 brutes and no Skarlock) to enhance my jack spam. Asphyxious3 was particularly fun to do this with, as his jack army now has Hyper-Aggresive and Unyielding. Sadly it gives up Satyxis Raiders, so while fun, it's not as competitive. |
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Post by maelstrom on Jun 20, 2017 17:42:57 GMT
I feel your pain OP. I played Ghost Fleet 5 or 6 times and i just did not enjoy it. So i stopped playing it. I know exactly what you mean about themes too. Yes there are like 4 or 5 themes out there that just feel way too powerful. If you're playing casual games ask in advance if someone minds playing out of theme. Some people may not want to because theyve only brought their theme list or whatever which sucks but if thats not working try to set up games before everyone arrives. Im personally not a big fan of the free models part of themes. I like the no AD, +1 to starting roll and the cool clouds that Banes are probably getting but yea not a fan of free models with the way theme lists are balancing out right now. Anyway im rambling. So! I stopped playing Ghost Fleet and made up a fun sounding Aiakos2 list instead. Ive played it twice so far, once against Ret (Garryth) and once against Legion and i won both games bottom of 2  There is still a fair amount of stuff in Cryx that can catch your opponent of guard. Dont feel bullied into playing Ghost Fleet. Also we have Dark Host coming within a month and the Black Fleet theme hopefully coming this year as well. |
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Jun 22, 2017 5:40:06 GMT
My one disappointment here is that we're not seeing much in the way of Infernal Machines, but oh well. That's because Infernal Machines is more of a "fun" theme I think. Because the benefits don't really add up, you get a bonus that applies to Warjacks so you want to maximise those, but you get free points for taking Thralls, which cuts too deep into your jack points. And even then, the benefit for the jacks is actually kind of lack luster. Some lists in that theme are definitely a blast to play, but I don't see it getting much track competitively. Infernal machines is pretty cool so long as you ignore the hyperaggressive. Tom Guan had a good Coven list with it. I have an Agathia IM list that's currently tormenting my meta. 20 carrions and 30 thralls + Darragh. Most armies can't stop the ghostly thralls. When CID is over I'll add a Wraith Engine. |
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Jun 22, 2017 6:02:52 GMT
I feel like the real reason we don't see much Infernal Machines is due to cost. I feel like an optimal competitive Infernal Machines list would look something like: conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_-0w0R1ad-1f1D1KdQ1D1KdQ1D1KdQ1D1KdQ1D1K1D1KCryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Infernal Machines (Goreshade 2) Goreshade the Cursed [+28] - Defiler [8] - Inflictor [13] - Nightwretch [7] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [0(3)] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [0(3)] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [0(3)] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] - Skarlock Commander [3] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] While that list is really good it's also over $300 in just Brute Thralls. I'm not sure I would want to go whole-hog on mechanithralls. Depending on matchups, Bile Thralls can be great now that they can pick their matchup with AD (plus Brute Thrall protection). Carrion Thralls work well for that initial stalling tactic (+1 SPD + fly) or as finishers for heavy models. And Soulhunters (which strangely count) are always a good addition for removing infantry in waves. I've also been playing around with some lists that go light on the thralls, using them only as an Ambush unit (min unit with 3 brutes and no Skarlock) to enhance my jack spam. Asphyxious3 was particularly fun to do this with, as his jack army now has Hyper-Aggresive and Unyielding. Sadly it gives up Satyxis Raiders, so while fun, it's not as competitive. I have 50 McThralls, 18 brutes and 20 Carrions, and I only bought one unit of McThralls and the Carrions new. If you go on bartertown you should be able to get a decent number. Your local meta may have someone trying to unload their collection too. For Gaspy3 it's more competitive than you think. Cloak of ash on the carrions and after CID your Mcthralls hanging with the carrions can become effective def 14, arm 14 post CID with Darragh/the Wraith Engine. |
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Post by Disappointed on Jun 22, 2017 6:28:09 GMT
Thing is, I play in a somewhat competitive group. I want variety in my games but I'm not looking in to casual games if that makes sense.
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Post by Swampmist on Jun 22, 2017 6:43:22 GMT
I mean, Satyxis spam is still doing well at many events.
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Post by Disappointed on Jun 22, 2017 11:46:21 GMT
What was this list Tom Guan used. Any link to it?
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npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
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Post by npe on Jun 22, 2017 14:20:36 GMT
What was this list Tom Guan used. Any link to it? It was on facebook. Here it is: 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army The Witch Coven of Garlghast - WJ: +26 - Egregore - Skarlock Thrall - PC: 4 - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Deathripper - PC: 6 Iron Lich Overseer - PC: 0 - Seether - PC: 13 Warwitch Siren - PC: 0 Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Soulhunters - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Soulhunters - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 Mechanithralls - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 - Brute Thrall - PC: 2 |
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There is still a fair amount of stuff in Cryx that can catch your opponent of guard. Dont feel bullied into playing Ghost Fleet. Also we have Dark Host coming within a month and the Black Fleet theme hopefully coming this year as well. 
