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Post by darkshroud on Jun 12, 2017 16:56:20 GMT
watching some Penny Arcade plays Warmachine, one of the players forgoes spending a focus to reduce damage by 5 in case a bigger hit happens later.
but it wouldnt matter when he spent it, right? if he takes 6 now and 10 later, no matter when he spends the focus, hes always taking 11. like if he took 3 now, id 100% understand if he held off.
im not crazy right?
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690 
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Post by zich on Jun 12, 2017 16:58:49 GMT
As long as the hit you are using it on is 5 or more damage it does not matter at all.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Jun 12, 2017 18:38:02 GMT
This is excluding other abilities that you could use your focus for such as arcane vortex or something like that but from a pure damage standpoint yes this is true.
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Post by greytemplar on Jun 12, 2017 19:37:40 GMT
Yeah. Purely for damage, as long as you are taking 5+ it's all the same.
I have a caster with 16 HP.
I take 3 sequential hits. One does 3 damage. One does 7. And one does 8.
I obviously do not use focus vs the 3 damage attack unless I expect no further attacks. Let's say I have 2 focus total.
If I use the focus vs the 3 damage and the 7 damage attack. I take a total of 10 damage(0+2+8).
If it use it vs the 3 and 8 damage attacks, I take a total of 10 damage(0+7+3)
If I use it vs the 7 and 8 damage attacks, I take 8 damage(3+2+3).
The only time you benefit from saving the focus is if you have an attack that does less than 5 and might later take damage of 5+.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 12, 2017 19:51:47 GMT
Correct for Focus. Though the thinking is a hordes faction concept. Fury transfers all the damage. So they may have been holding onto the idea of how Fury works, instead of thinking how Focus is always a flat 5.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 12, 2017 20:12:25 GMT
I've seen people do this. It's definitely pointless to save focus for a hit if you're being hit for 5+ damage.
If you get hit for 1-4, some consideration might be good.
For instance, if you're getting hit by Caine2 (though surviving that sure is iffy) then you know that the damage will increase as he shoots. So if you take 2 damage during an early shot, you might want to save the focus for when he's shooting at pow 19.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 13, 2017 13:59:45 GMT
Yeah it's pretty much a case of if you are taking at least 5 damage you might as well negate it.
Unless you have 5 focus left and your opponent can only put out 5 or less hits on you. Then you might as well negate them all.
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xernal
Demo Gamer
Check yourself before you wrack yourself
Posts: 16
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Post by xernal on Jun 15, 2017 17:41:28 GMT
Even if you reduce the damage to 0, it doesn't prevent effects that trigger on being damaged (you're damaged for 0 damage), so thats not even an issue either.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jun 24, 2017 21:51:58 GMT
Even if you reduce the damage to 0, it doesn't prevent effects that trigger on being damaged (you're damaged for 0 damage), so thats not even an issue either. Are you sure about that? Because Stranglehold only locks you down if it beats armor. Or is that just a quirk of that one spell? |
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Post by welshhoppo on Jun 24, 2017 22:11:08 GMT
Stranglehold says damaged.
But yes. It's in the rulebook. If you reduce the damage to 0 you have still been damaged. Same for warlocks, if they transfer the damage and they don't lose any boxes they too have still been damaged.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 24, 2017 22:14:20 GMT
Even if you reduce the damage to 0, it doesn't prevent effects that trigger on being damaged (you're damaged for 0 damage), so thats not even an issue either. Are you sure about that? Because Stranglehold only locks you down if it beats armor. Or is that just a quirk of that one spell? Stranglehold is one of several spells that triggers when a model is damaged. When a warcaster takes damage, they can spend 1 focus to reduce that damage by 5, reducing it to a minimum of zero. However, the warcaster was still damaged, even if the health lost was zero. Therefore, a spell like stranglehold would still trigger. |
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jun 26, 2017 0:27:35 GMT
Are you sure about that? Because Stranglehold only locks you down if it beats armor. Or is that just a quirk of that one spell? Stranglehold is one of several spells that triggers when a model is damaged. When a warcaster takes damage, they can spend 1 focus to reduce that damage by 5, reducing it to a minimum of zero. However, the warcaster was still damaged, even if the health lost was zero. Therefore, a spell like stranglehold would still trigger. But you're not "damaged" if it didn't get past ARM in the first place? |
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 26, 2017 0:41:20 GMT
Stranglehold is one of several spells that triggers when a model is damaged. When a warcaster takes damage, they can spend 1 focus to reduce that damage by 5, reducing it to a minimum of zero. However, the warcaster was still damaged, even if the health lost was zero. Therefore, a spell like stranglehold would still trigger. But you're not "damaged" if it didn't get past ARM in the first place? Yeah, but the focus spent doesn't increase arm. It reduces the damage after the arm value is subtracted from the dice roll+pow (where it is established whether or not the model is "damaged"), but before the damage is applied to health boxes. The sequence of events goes like this: 1. Wurmwood casts stranglehold on eHaley 2. Roll dice, add fury stat 3. If total equals or exceeds target defense, attack hits. If not, miss. 4. If hit, roll dice+pow. 5. Subtract arm value from total. 6. If damage total is 1 or more, Haley is damaged. 7. Stranglehold effect triggers if Haley is damaged. 8. Haley may spend 1 focus to reduce damage total by 5 to minimum of zero. 9. Total damage is subtracted from Haley's health. Edit: might have misread your post. No, you are not "damaged" if the damage roll did not exceed armor. |
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Post by greytemplar on Jun 26, 2017 2:57:12 GMT
Stranglehold is one of several spells that triggers when a model is damaged. When a warcaster takes damage, they can spend 1 focus to reduce that damage by 5, reducing it to a minimum of zero. However, the warcaster was still damaged, even if the health lost was zero. Therefore, a spell like stranglehold would still trigger. But you're not "damaged" if it didn't get past ARM in the first place? Yes you are. The damage rolled already exceeded your armor value. While it's convenient to think of spending focus as a temporary "+5 armor" it's incorrect from a rules perspective. You roll for damage. If roll + strength of attack exceeds armor, the target suffers that much damage. Focus reduces the damage suffered by up to 5. It does not change the actual damage calculation. It applies retroactively. Thus, you still took damage and all triggers regarding that will happen. |
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