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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 19, 2017 21:33:35 GMT
Final update: Siege2 changes from dev talk formally added to CID document. High Ground cannot be placed over enemy models. Minute Man(!) gains extended control range. Blockhouse deployment goes to a static 16" rather than 6" past deployment zone. Initial thoughts: - high ground seems abusable as long as you can generate a hill under a colossal, structure, or BE to give it arcing fire on demand. - Minute Man change is unexpected and awesome. - I dislike the Blockhouse change - the Trenches can now consistently reach the midline of the table, and it takes away the synergy with Gravediggers +1 to the starting roll. - If the blockhouse gets a static 16" deployment, it should gain the predeployment rule from Mk2 collosals (and so should all structures.) Violates suspension of disbelief ALLLLL over the place otherwise. 1. Minuteman change is awesome. 2. Arcing fire is good, not broken. Shadow fire, mage sight, true sight, and eyeless sight exist, as do hills and arcing fire naturally. 3. Blockhouse deployed at 13" is bad. And that wasn't synergy, that was skornergy. A model that is useless unless deployed on turn 2 is no good. 4. Suspension of disbelief should have gone out the window LOOOOONG ago. Pre-deployment is gone, and it was an annoying rule anyway.
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Post by gobber on Jun 19, 2017 22:10:59 GMT
Still no long gunner changes? arglebargle.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 19, 2017 23:54:02 GMT
Final update: Siege2 changes from dev talk formally added to CID document. High Ground cannot be placed over enemy models. Minute Man(!) gains extended control range. Blockhouse deployment goes to a static 16" rather than 6" past deployment zone. Initial thoughts: - high ground seems abusable as long as you can generate a hill under a colossal, structure, or BE to give it arcing fire on demand. - Minute Man change is unexpected and awesome. - I dislike the Blockhouse change - the Trenches can now consistently reach the midline of the table, and it takes away the synergy with Gravediggers +1 to the starting roll. - If the blockhouse gets a static 16" deployment, it should gain the predeployment rule from Mk2 collosals (and so should all structures.) Violates suspension of disbelief ALLLLL over the place otherwise. So very very rarely will your opponent put their caster in aiming range of your jacks who can kill them, usually you will need to move up to go for a good assassination and both versions of the rule allowed this. Its strong, but not too strong. Being able to use Blockhouse Trenches on Sieges hills is awesome, though, since that gives a total defilade which I really like. It helps protect your soldiers from sprays as well as other guns. Much approve. The Blockhouse change was necessary if it were to remain relevant in the game. Variable deployment was a huge kick in the nads to deciding to bring it in the list because sometimes its nicely placed and often its in an annoyingly hard to use place. Now its reliable, which is good. Also, its usually pretty obvious where its going to go, it doesn't need predeployment mainly because that rule was irritating and noone ever remembered it (or cared if it was forgotten). I like the changes. Siege 2 seems good, as does Kraye. 2 Unique casters to add to the full stable. Siege 2 will be a very good Storm Division caster as well as probably a good Gravedigger caster.
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Post by danfromchicago on Jun 20, 2017 4:29:18 GMT
Initial thoughts: - high ground seems abusable as long as you can generate a hill under a colossal, structure, or BE to give it arcing fire on demand. 4” aoe. Large base models need not apply
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 20, 2017 5:20:03 GMT
Initial thoughts: - high ground seems abusable as long as you can generate a hill under a colossal, structure, or BE to give it arcing fire on demand. 4” aoe. Large base models need not apply That's my thought. that, or make it unable to be placed over any models. An aiming, sniped Stormwall has an 18" range with RAT 8, which seems too strong to couple with arcing fire. Even with 14" threat, that's a lot of space to deny to an enemy caster.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 20, 2017 5:27:49 GMT
4” aoe. Large base models need not apply That's my thought. that, or make it unable to be placed over any models. An aiming, sniped Stormwall has an 18" range with RAT 8, which seems too strong to couple with arcing fire. Even with 14" threat, that's a lot of space to deny to an enemy caster. Sniped Stormwall is not on Siege 2 with High Ground. He doesn't have Snipe. I don't see why this is such an issue. Check out Caine 3 sometime to see how easy it is to avoid models in the way.
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Post by jisidro on Jun 20, 2017 10:21:53 GMT
You're right, pre-deployment sounds perfect for structures. Care to go over to the CId fóruns and typing it down?
Pre-deploying annoying? How so? It's easy to use and obvious or not gives info. Counter deploying a structure in front of their prefered target makes very little game sense.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 20, 2017 10:31:50 GMT
You're right, pre-deployment sounds perfect for structures. Care to go over to the CId fóruns and typing it down?
Pre-deploying annoying? How so? It's easy to use and obvious or not gives info. Counter deploying a structure in front of their prefered target makes very little game sense. About as much sense as a Robot being there. Just think of the opponent charging into an area where a structure is because its an important area. It was worth building an emplacement there. Honestly? The rule is annoying as all hell because a good 50% of games I saw involving a colossal or battle engine at the end of deployment the player said "Oh, I was meant to predeploy this, would this change anything?" Opponent says "no" and they go on their lives because huge based models don't get deployed further than 6" from the middle of the board edge 99% of the time. Rules for rules sake is annoying, it doesn't add much and its another nerf to the Blockhouse who, real talk, doesn't need it. He's already a little expensive.
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Post by jisidro on Jun 20, 2017 10:55:33 GMT
I think it's pretty significant where colossal/Gargants are placed, even it's a 12" strip on the middle of the table.
Having the blockhouse always 16" up the field makes going first even better and even more of a no-brainer.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 20, 2017 11:21:33 GMT
I think it's pretty significant where colossal/Gargants are placed, even it's a 12" strip on the middle of the table. Having the blockhouse always 16" up the field makes going first even better and even more of a no-brainer. If you ignore terrain and scenario then yes, going first is a no brainer. But there are far more other concerns.
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Post by jisidro on Jun 20, 2017 15:34:41 GMT
I think it's pretty significant where colossal/Gargants are placed, even it's a 12" strip on the middle of the table. Having the blockhouse always 16" up the field makes going first even better and even more of a no-brainer. If you ignore terrain and scenario then yes, going first is a no brainer. But there are far more other concerns.
Either I'm REALLY sure I can score in my zone on t2 and t3 I'll go first. It's really easy to get into a situation where you can't threaten your zone without getting alpha'ed on t2 and scenario-wise that changes the game.
Not enough games in SR2017 to know if this changed but so far reports convey the idea that alfa is now much bigger than points... so it's 1st, 1st 1st...
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Post by Ajax on Jun 20, 2017 20:55:49 GMT
So with the gravediggers CID coming to a close, who are the casters that you guys are finding a good fit? All of my initial list building leads me to believe that it's very much an anti-infantry theme, in a meta where armor cracking is still pretty necessary. Obviously Haley3, but anyone else?
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 20, 2017 21:12:02 GMT
So with the gravediggers CID coming to a close, who are the casters that you guys are finding a good fit? All of my initial list building leads me to believe that it's very much an anti-infantry theme, in a meta where armor cracking is still pretty necessary. Obviously Haley3, but anyone else? Haley 3,stryker 3, Stryker 2, Stryker 1, Siege 2, Maddox, kraye are all candidates for me, plenty of game to play, and amongst the non-competitive casters like Caine 2 and 1 there are some games they could play
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 20, 2017 21:26:45 GMT
I'm definitely interested in trying Haley3, Caine2, and Stryker2. Lots of good candidates, but those are the one I want to try first.
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Post by Ajax on Jun 20, 2017 21:34:27 GMT
I'm actually glad that people are seeing the Stryker2 benefits as well. I laid out some of my thoughts on Stryker2 in theme with gravediggers, and got shut down by my local meta who said "he does nothing for them". I'm waiting patiently to play it and prove them wrong My thoughts are basically that it's not so much what he does for them, as what they do for him. Providing some really solid defensive tech for a caster who can effectively sit in the zones and threat the entire game seems great.
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