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Post by Cryptix on Jun 6, 2017 13:28:19 GMT
Butcher1 is great with double Shocktrooper boats - put Fury on one, Iron Flesh on the other, and just push forward. Drop his feat the turn you're planning on charging in - remember, it also affects their assault shot damage rolls. A single squad (the non-fury'ed one!) took down a Mammoth in one turn.
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Post by UtilityCookieguest on Jun 6, 2017 13:32:10 GMT
I've had some succes using Strakov 2 and the IF tier.
Use your feat after she feated. Ironfang pikemen with quicken will still jam 15 inch under her feat. (8 inch walk, 5 inch repo minifeat) (arm 21 shield wall) Cavalry advance 8 and repo3 (arm 22) Black dragons minifeat (arm 24 shield wall)
One unit gets +2 arm upkeep
Pretty rough for her to deal with and you just don't care about telekenesis.
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Post by borderprince on Jun 6, 2017 16:07:17 GMT
Butcher1 is great with double Shocktrooper boats - put Fury on one, Iron Flesh on the other, and just push forward. Drop his feat the turn you're planning on charging in - remember, it also affects their assault shot damage rolls. A single squad (the non-fury'ed one!) took down a Mammoth in one turn. Personal preference would be only one Shocktrooper unit with Butcher1, simply because his lists tend to be so slow. You need something in his list with decent threat range. That can be guns or faster models, although because of how his feat works, guns can sometimes get better use from it than a fast unit which might overextend.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 6, 2017 18:09:47 GMT
Butcher1 is great with double Shocktrooper boats - put Fury on one, Iron Flesh on the other, and just push forward. Drop his feat the turn you're planning on charging in - remember, it also affects their assault shot damage rolls. A single squad (the non-fury'ed one!) took down a Mammoth in one turn. Personal preference would be only one Shocktrooper unit with Butcher1, simply because his lists tend to be so slow. You need something in his list with decent threat range. That can be guns or faster models, although because of how his feat works, guns can sometimes get better use from it than a fast unit which might overextend. It will be REALLY interesting to see how much this remains true in SR 2017. Such a radical redo and it isn't (yet) clear to me whether the "I jam you top of 2 and you lose" is going to be a viable strategy into even our slowest MOW lists (and lets be honest - with the Kovnik they are not THAT slow). But it is going to take testing and a better feel for how this plays out and whether the most control'ee of control casters is going to be able to time walk you into a +5 point loss by turn 3-4. If it CAN work than I can think of nothing really more terrifying across so much of the meta as Butcher 1, double boat and a conquest for how brutally hard it will hit in attrition. Add in some mechanics to really frustrate your opponent and it feels like we can do wonder.
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wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by wags on Jun 6, 2017 20:36:57 GMT
I've had some succes using Strakov 2 and the IF tier. Use your feat after she feated. Ironfang pikemen with quicken will still jam 15 inch under her feat. (8 inch walk, 5 inch repo minifeat) (arm 21 shield wall) Cavalry advance 8 and repo3 (arm 22) Black dragons minifeat (arm 24 shield wall) One unit gets +2 arm upkeep Pretty rough for her to deal with and you just don't care about telekenesis. You can actually get the IFP up 16 inches and engaging out to 18 with quicken. With the wording on their mini feat you can still run and benefit from being in shield wall. You just have to make sure you finish your run with your models in base to base and you won't get the repo move.
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Post by GumbaFish on Jun 14, 2017 20:34:18 GMT
Didn't mean to post and then bail but I had some traveling for work to do the past few weeks. Anyways, there has been a lot of good advice in here that I am trying to internalize. I played against the same Haley 2 list as my first attempt with Vlad 1 and did much better this time. I did drop some jacks because I wanted to try conquest and he did provide a pretty big board presence. I wasn't able to use my feat to jam; however, I realized I couldn't get work done with my jacks during his feat so used that turn to get in another round of shooting and left conquest in position to threaten a large part of the board. In the end I lost on scenario but was surely winning on attrition. I'll post some list specifics when I get home later.
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zeffid
Junior Strategist
Posts: 163
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Post by zeffid on Jun 19, 2017 11:59:12 GMT
My personal experience is: Khador against Cygnar is a gunfight - don't bring a knife. The thing is that both factions are very adaptable and have plenty of tournament viable options. This also brings pain and negative play experience to the lighthearted as you can endlessly try to win an uphill battle against a decent player. So let me put here my competitive perspective on casters and counters: 1) Haley 2 - top dog you always have to tool up aginast her. She cracks melee-oriented armies like nuts and Karchev can no longer put enough armour on the table. Vladimir 1 gunline works fine. Tooled up Butcher3/Harkevich are also fine. I've had a one-off success with Zerkova 1 IFPs but can't recommend that yet. 2) Sloan - she's a killer. Now that she easilly fits a colosal in the list. It is twice as hard. I think that only Harkevich and Vladimir 1 are reasonable answers here. 3) Nemo 3 - Now this guy can remove anything that is not ARM 20 from the table on his feat turn. Even ARM 20 is being removed. So you have really to max up boxes OR treats. So the answer is Harkevich/Karchev OR Vladimir 1 with his extreme shooting. 4) Haley 3 - another headache. Vladimir 2 is a direct counter here. Otherwise counter her cloudwal with your own: Harkevich or Zerkova 1. I think Butcher 3 is reasonably good here too. 5) Striker 1/2 - skew up and you're golden. Vladimir 1 OR Harkevich/Karchev work fine.
As a conclusion to have a relatively comfortable feeling going into Cygnar you take Vladimir 1 and then either ARM skew or a specialist (Zerkova 1/ Vladimir 2/Butcher 3) to cover his weakness. Doesn't mean other things don't work. It's just these are more reliable.
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Post by K23 on Jun 19, 2017 12:51:47 GMT
I am not sure Karchev is unable to fight H2. Actually, I think he still has something to say. What is your assumption based on?
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zeffid
Junior Strategist
Posts: 163
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Post by zeffid on Jun 20, 2017 9:52:44 GMT
I am not sure Karchev is unable to fight H2. Actually, I think he still has something to say. What is your assumption based on? I'm sure that JotW theme improves this situation a bit. But I have no proof yet.
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Post by GumbaFish on Jun 20, 2017 17:13:46 GMT
Thanks for the breakdown Zeffid. That breakdown was really helpful though for looking at individual casters since I've definitely found myself flummoxed as what can serve as my Cygnar drop given their stable of casters/lists. It seems like I've got all the right tools to deal with these matchups in Vlad 1 and I just need to work on my play on the table. I've also always played against rather good Cygnar players so I definitely agree that the matchup is difficult when piloted by a good opponent.
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zeffid
Junior Strategist
Posts: 163
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Post by zeffid on Jun 22, 2017 12:56:21 GMT
Thanks for the breakdown Zeffid. That breakdown was really helpful though for looking at individual casters since I've definitely found myself flummoxed as what can serve as my Cygnar drop given their stable of casters/lists. It seems like I've got all the right tools to deal with these matchups in Vlad 1 and I just need to work on my play on the table. I've also always played against rather good Cygnar players so I definitely agree that the matchup is difficult when piloted by a good opponent. Remember to keep Vladimir in the stable as soon as you see Haley 3 otherwise it is about the thin layer of wax inbetween the chair and your army
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