Post by zerosequence on May 28, 2017 14:22:52 GMT
Hello Forums,
I won a 3-rounder this weekend, thought I would post some batreps. Here is the basics:
Event had even number of players but there was a pair down so it could have gone 4 rounds (I forget the number), but he lost so it went 3 rounds. Used 2016 scenarios with 2017 terrain rules, no CID. This meta is about 1 hour from where I live but we crossover a lot so I familiar with it; there are a lot of really solid players who tend to gravitate toward netdecked power lists. Knowing this I decided to bring my "A" game, because I wanted to win this one. I have been on Khador for quite some time and I want to faction swap to take a break so I wanted to go out with a bang!
My lists (Both Winter Guard Theme):
Vlad1
-Dog
-Conquest
Max WGI + CA
Max WGRC + 3 Rockets
2 Mortars
2 Fields Guns
Joe
Gun Carriage
Min Meks
The list is designed to take on Ghost Fleet but really any infantry heavy build. I know I am short on magic attacks but that is the nature of Khador unless you run out of theme so I just take my licks and hope for a good counter punch. Plus a lot of the Ghost Fleet I play against doesn't use Blackbanes anyway because more pirates = more recursion, which is better anyway IMO.
Butcher3
-Dog
-Ruin
-3x Devastator
Max WGI + CA
Max WGRC + 3 Rockets
Joe
This list is designed to play into Legion and is what I like to call "The Army of Butcher." The idea is to use B3 to destroy the entire enemy army, or just be a strong scenario presence, and everything else is geared toward achieving that. The Devastators provide scenario control as they are extremely hard to kill (mostly they stay closed and just block for B3). Against high DEF they just open up and auto hit. The Winter Guard are there to provide some shooting pressure to force the enemy to move and to provide bodies to clog scenario elements. They also can Sac Pawn for B3 against a heavy gunline. Ruin just because he gives a bit of magic and Dispel.
Round 1
Opponent has Mercs with Pirates and Blaize, dudespam either way. I drop Vlad1 because that is what I brought it for. He drops Pirates. Scenario is Incursion so I imagine he wanted to jam me out. I deploy with WGRC on the right, GC and Conquest, Vlad and Weapon Crews in the middle, and WGI on the left. My plan is to hang back and eat the jam, then use the GC and Conquest to control the scenario.
He goes first and as expected jams forward. On the right I wipe out 5 Press Gangers and Conquest drops some Creeping Barrage to block their charge. In the middle I kill some Boarding Crew but Tough and No Sleeping on the Job save a few. On the left I position staggered so he gets a couple charges on the WGI but he can't get to the back line which will then mini-feat and spray them to death. Gun Carriage drops some difficult terrain.
Round 2 he charges/jams as expected. Really Pirates are predictable.
He kills a few WGI and some Weapon Crew, but actually less damage than we both thought. PG's on the right have to run to jam. My turn I Feat, SnP and go to work. I wipe out the PGs on the right and Meks to contest the flag (he has Bradigan hanging on it). Conquest walks up the middle flag and contests, shoots Hawk to death with big gun. WGI spray the crap out of his army but between 4+ Tough and No Sleeping I kill like 5 dudes. He made so many Tough checks and I didn't make a single on the whole game lol. Tough is a bad rule. 
Gun Carriage Tramples over some Pirates and shoots down Rockbottom, contests left flag.
From here on it becomes academic. My opponent has to devote his two Nomads to killing the GC, and all his Pirates are tied up with my WG, even though he is winning the attrition battle. He scores 1 point on left flag with Shae. My turn the Conquest gets Boundless and is able to charge a Nomad and still land on the middle flag (premeasure FTW!) so he scores and my Meks run to score on the right. At that point I just run up the clock and win on scenario since he has nothing to deal with the Conquest.
Lessons Learned
I have a tendency to pick the wrong list, but I stuck to my plan and it worked out this time. WG theme is amazing. I love Vlad1 but I never run him competitively because he has a tendency to just die randomly. Sac Pawn fixes that all week long. I lose out on the Advance Move but I think it's a fair trade because Conquest brings tons of AOEs and board control and has a long threat with Vlad, plus SnP. Really that Sac Pawn is huge because now you can Boundless, Feat, SnP, and still be safe from shooting, unlike before where you couldn't Windwall and just died to a random Ravagore. Can't wait for the new GC to make this list even harder to crack.
Game 2
Opponent has 1 Ret list with Ossyan and Helios, 2x MHSF, Halberds. Scenario is the Pit. This is a matchup I would normally drop Vlad1 into but with the scenario being The Pit and his list it is perfect for B3.
He lets me go first to try and get the drop on shooting. But here is the thing - there is a forest literally right next to my flag, and a house partially blocking the zone. So I just run B3 and Devastators onto the flag and camp it. WGI and Ruin run behind the house, and WGRC swarm B3 for Sac Pawns.
His turn 2 he comes on strong but the MHSF on the left have E3 so he can only see my Devastators. Lol they do nothing. He chooses not to jam with Halberds for some reason. Right MHSF mini-feat and shoot up Ruin but don't take any systems out. Helios toes the zone. Ossyan and B3 both score flags.
My turn I simply jam with the WGI and Ruin. Everything else just maintains the camp. I score flag again. His turn he has to use the Halberds to clear the WGI jam and he can't get a couple which leaves Helios unable to charge Ruin. Instead he shoots him and moves him out of the way. Other MHSF unit creeps around B3's rear but can't do much. I score again.
At this point the game is over on scenario. I am going to score my flag again and go to 4 and all he can do is jam MHSF into it which B3 just eats. I run all the Devs and Dogs foward to clog the zone so even if Helios gets a shot on B3 he can't drag him into melee range. I still have a bunch of Sac Pawns. Ruin randomly got 2 souls and my opponent sort of forgot about him so I am able to walk over to Ossyan and just beat him into the dirt. I win on assassination.
Lessons Learned
The list played out perfectly, but to be fair my opponent was new to Ret. I have dabled with Ret on the side and they are really hard to play because you have to remember and apply all the rules they have. The scenario was just too perfect for me and the Devs shut down Helios pushes so I feel like I start with a big advantage. If my opponent had been more aggressive coming at my flag I would have just run my entire army at Ossyan with B3 blocked by Devs in the front and swarmed by WG to Sac Pawn and gone right for the assassination.
Game 3
So now I am at top table. Opponent has Legion, L1 and something else. Honestly I didn't pay attention because I was dropping B3 no matter what. He drops L1 and is surprised I drop B3 because he thought the Vlad1 shooting spam would shut him down from range. After the game I told him that I would never take that matchup because I basically have 2 turns to shoot him down before he either reaches my lines or jams me out of scenario, and L1 has Parasite and Kiss from the Blackfrost so he can chew up Conquest pretty easily. In any case, scenario is Take and Hold.
His list has Hex Hunters, 3 Neraph, 1 Seraph, Blackfrost, some support Solos, Bloodseer, Bolt Thrower, Naga. All told a toolbox list designed to prey on Parasite targets. This is why I like Devs into Legion because even with Parasite they are still effective ARM20, 34 boxes.
Opponent let's me go first. I deploy so that B3 is running right onto my flag swarmed by Devs and the WGI. WGRC deploy on the right and Ruin kind of centered. I do the usual running deal and nothing else happens. He runs as well and nothing else happens.
My turn I know I need to play this just right. The trick to beating Legion is always to take out their support. Once their beasts start to frenzy the game goes downhill for them really fast. They also don't play a good long game which is where B3 and Devs shine in the late game - you just have to not get assassinated. So I just the Devs to jam up my flag and B3 hides behind it. I am not going to score it yet so, whatever. WGI swarm B3. WGRC take out 5 Hex Hunters and a Shepherd. I then send Ruin into some More Hex Hunters killing them and getting souls and facing down L1.
His turn he jams in. Hex Hunters Hex Bolt my Devs so no exploding. He gangs up on Ruin and manages to just take him out with lots of shooting and 2 Neraphs maxed out. He Feats and drops Parasite on a Dev, and Kiss, but can't kill it. Left it on something like 10 boxes with a cortex.
My turn I am now down but I have to fight through it. B3 kills a couple dudes, WGI swarm him again. Devs just stay closed and stay annoying. WGRC shoot down his Succubus (stops cloud on L1 to stop Prowl) and actually is then able to drop some damage on L1 which gets transferred, but I like this because it damages his beasts. His turn the Neraphs start eating my WGRC and Hex Hunters countinue to jam me up, but now he has to get really close to do anything.
So on my turn B3 does the usual Impending Doom and Feat, kills a ton of stuff. He can't completely clear the flag but in the end I got rid of all the annoying targets and some beasts. Now my opponent starts to Frenzy, or passes but has to sit on Fury, so his army quickly loses productivity. The Bolt Thrower and Naga frenzy and charge into my Devs. The Neraphs are ok and continute to eat my WGRC. The game is starting to tile in my favor, but he has scored first. I am able to wiggle around a single WGRC each time to contest his flag until I can get a Dev on it.
From here on out I spare you further detail, suffice to say I get a Dev to contest his flag and all he can do is feed Beasts to B3 to stop me from auto winning on scenario. I gladly consume them and eventually win on scenario anyway.
Lessons Learned
I had a great and gracious opponent who was always fair to remind me of a few things I kept fogetting, like the Naga having crit-Shadowbind, and so on. It helps when your opponent is a very nice fellow because there are no "gotchas" to ruin the game. I hope I was as gracious back to him, as I generally try to be a forgiving opponent. I hate winning because my opponent didn't know B3 could X, or Rockets were boosted damage, etc. So the lesson is: be a good opponent, but also remember those rules! Not everyone will be as nice and remind you.
As for my army, it worked exactly as intended. We talked after the game and my opponent was very serious about me dropping Vlad1 and winning the ranged game. I didn't see anyway that happens unless I get some really lucky dice rolls and he screws up. I don't think I played stellar, but I played just better than my opponent which I guess is what counts?
But my B3 list played out exactly as intended where I lose the early game but grind out a late game win by using B3 to eat the opponents army. I think B3 literally killed 75% of my opponents stuff as eventually he just had to feed models into that "Impending" black hole. So all told I stuck to my plan and it worked.
Overall Conclusions
Loving Khador right now, but good riddance to SR2016. I like 2017 much better. We will see how these lists play out in that enviroment, but they were designed with both SRs in mind, so I don't imagine I will do much refining. I also dodged Ghost Fleet this time (no Cryx, which was weird) so I am still not sure how that matchup goes into a good player. I feel I have a 50/50 chance with Vlad1 anyway. B3 is still a beast and I still consider him best played as a scenario monster, not an assassin. He just keeps that assassination threat in his back pocket.
Anyway, was a great time and good note to go out on with Khador. Not sure what faction I will hop to next, thinking Grymkin as I love the models and want to get into Hordes. But of course The Motherland will always be calling me home, so I imagine I will be back by the end of the year.
Hope you enjoyed the read!
I won a 3-rounder this weekend, thought I would post some batreps. Here is the basics:
Event had even number of players but there was a pair down so it could have gone 4 rounds (I forget the number), but he lost so it went 3 rounds. Used 2016 scenarios with 2017 terrain rules, no CID. This meta is about 1 hour from where I live but we crossover a lot so I familiar with it; there are a lot of really solid players who tend to gravitate toward netdecked power lists. Knowing this I decided to bring my "A" game, because I wanted to win this one. I have been on Khador for quite some time and I want to faction swap to take a break so I wanted to go out with a bang!
My lists (Both Winter Guard Theme):
Vlad1
-Dog
-Conquest
Max WGI + CA
Max WGRC + 3 Rockets
2 Mortars
2 Fields Guns
Joe
Gun Carriage
Min Meks
The list is designed to take on Ghost Fleet but really any infantry heavy build. I know I am short on magic attacks but that is the nature of Khador unless you run out of theme so I just take my licks and hope for a good counter punch. Plus a lot of the Ghost Fleet I play against doesn't use Blackbanes anyway because more pirates = more recursion, which is better anyway IMO.
Butcher3
-Dog
-Ruin
-3x Devastator
Max WGI + CA
Max WGRC + 3 Rockets
Joe
This list is designed to play into Legion and is what I like to call "The Army of Butcher." The idea is to use B3 to destroy the entire enemy army, or just be a strong scenario presence, and everything else is geared toward achieving that. The Devastators provide scenario control as they are extremely hard to kill (mostly they stay closed and just block for B3). Against high DEF they just open up and auto hit. The Winter Guard are there to provide some shooting pressure to force the enemy to move and to provide bodies to clog scenario elements. They also can Sac Pawn for B3 against a heavy gunline. Ruin just because he gives a bit of magic and Dispel.
Round 1
Opponent has Mercs with Pirates and Blaize, dudespam either way. I drop Vlad1 because that is what I brought it for. He drops Pirates. Scenario is Incursion so I imagine he wanted to jam me out. I deploy with WGRC on the right, GC and Conquest, Vlad and Weapon Crews in the middle, and WGI on the left. My plan is to hang back and eat the jam, then use the GC and Conquest to control the scenario.
He goes first and as expected jams forward. On the right I wipe out 5 Press Gangers and Conquest drops some Creeping Barrage to block their charge. In the middle I kill some Boarding Crew but Tough and No Sleeping on the Job save a few. On the left I position staggered so he gets a couple charges on the WGI but he can't get to the back line which will then mini-feat and spray them to death. Gun Carriage drops some difficult terrain.
Round 2 he charges/jams as expected. Really Pirates are predictable.
He kills a few WGI and some Weapon Crew, but actually less damage than we both thought. PG's on the right have to run to jam. My turn I Feat, SnP and go to work. I wipe out the PGs on the right and Meks to contest the flag (he has Bradigan hanging on it). Conquest walks up the middle flag and contests, shoots Hawk to death with big gun. WGI spray the crap out of his army but between 4+ Tough and No Sleeping I kill like 5 dudes. He made so many Tough checks and I didn't make a single on the whole game lol. Tough is a bad rule. 
Gun Carriage Tramples over some Pirates and shoots down Rockbottom, contests left flag.From here on it becomes academic. My opponent has to devote his two Nomads to killing the GC, and all his Pirates are tied up with my WG, even though he is winning the attrition battle. He scores 1 point on left flag with Shae. My turn the Conquest gets Boundless and is able to charge a Nomad and still land on the middle flag (premeasure FTW!) so he scores and my Meks run to score on the right. At that point I just run up the clock and win on scenario since he has nothing to deal with the Conquest.
Lessons Learned
I have a tendency to pick the wrong list, but I stuck to my plan and it worked out this time. WG theme is amazing. I love Vlad1 but I never run him competitively because he has a tendency to just die randomly. Sac Pawn fixes that all week long. I lose out on the Advance Move but I think it's a fair trade because Conquest brings tons of AOEs and board control and has a long threat with Vlad, plus SnP. Really that Sac Pawn is huge because now you can Boundless, Feat, SnP, and still be safe from shooting, unlike before where you couldn't Windwall and just died to a random Ravagore. Can't wait for the new GC to make this list even harder to crack.
Game 2
Opponent has 1 Ret list with Ossyan and Helios, 2x MHSF, Halberds. Scenario is the Pit. This is a matchup I would normally drop Vlad1 into but with the scenario being The Pit and his list it is perfect for B3.
He lets me go first to try and get the drop on shooting. But here is the thing - there is a forest literally right next to my flag, and a house partially blocking the zone. So I just run B3 and Devastators onto the flag and camp it. WGI and Ruin run behind the house, and WGRC swarm B3 for Sac Pawns.
His turn 2 he comes on strong but the MHSF on the left have E3 so he can only see my Devastators. Lol they do nothing. He chooses not to jam with Halberds for some reason. Right MHSF mini-feat and shoot up Ruin but don't take any systems out. Helios toes the zone. Ossyan and B3 both score flags.
My turn I simply jam with the WGI and Ruin. Everything else just maintains the camp. I score flag again. His turn he has to use the Halberds to clear the WGI jam and he can't get a couple which leaves Helios unable to charge Ruin. Instead he shoots him and moves him out of the way. Other MHSF unit creeps around B3's rear but can't do much. I score again.
At this point the game is over on scenario. I am going to score my flag again and go to 4 and all he can do is jam MHSF into it which B3 just eats. I run all the Devs and Dogs foward to clog the zone so even if Helios gets a shot on B3 he can't drag him into melee range. I still have a bunch of Sac Pawns. Ruin randomly got 2 souls and my opponent sort of forgot about him so I am able to walk over to Ossyan and just beat him into the dirt. I win on assassination.
Lessons Learned
The list played out perfectly, but to be fair my opponent was new to Ret. I have dabled with Ret on the side and they are really hard to play because you have to remember and apply all the rules they have. The scenario was just too perfect for me and the Devs shut down Helios pushes so I feel like I start with a big advantage. If my opponent had been more aggressive coming at my flag I would have just run my entire army at Ossyan with B3 blocked by Devs in the front and swarmed by WG to Sac Pawn and gone right for the assassination.
Game 3
So now I am at top table. Opponent has Legion, L1 and something else. Honestly I didn't pay attention because I was dropping B3 no matter what. He drops L1 and is surprised I drop B3 because he thought the Vlad1 shooting spam would shut him down from range. After the game I told him that I would never take that matchup because I basically have 2 turns to shoot him down before he either reaches my lines or jams me out of scenario, and L1 has Parasite and Kiss from the Blackfrost so he can chew up Conquest pretty easily. In any case, scenario is Take and Hold.
His list has Hex Hunters, 3 Neraph, 1 Seraph, Blackfrost, some support Solos, Bloodseer, Bolt Thrower, Naga. All told a toolbox list designed to prey on Parasite targets. This is why I like Devs into Legion because even with Parasite they are still effective ARM20, 34 boxes.
Opponent let's me go first. I deploy so that B3 is running right onto my flag swarmed by Devs and the WGI. WGRC deploy on the right and Ruin kind of centered. I do the usual running deal and nothing else happens. He runs as well and nothing else happens.
My turn I know I need to play this just right. The trick to beating Legion is always to take out their support. Once their beasts start to frenzy the game goes downhill for them really fast. They also don't play a good long game which is where B3 and Devs shine in the late game - you just have to not get assassinated. So I just the Devs to jam up my flag and B3 hides behind it. I am not going to score it yet so, whatever. WGI swarm B3. WGRC take out 5 Hex Hunters and a Shepherd. I then send Ruin into some More Hex Hunters killing them and getting souls and facing down L1.
His turn he jams in. Hex Hunters Hex Bolt my Devs so no exploding. He gangs up on Ruin and manages to just take him out with lots of shooting and 2 Neraphs maxed out. He Feats and drops Parasite on a Dev, and Kiss, but can't kill it. Left it on something like 10 boxes with a cortex.
My turn I am now down but I have to fight through it. B3 kills a couple dudes, WGI swarm him again. Devs just stay closed and stay annoying. WGRC shoot down his Succubus (stops cloud on L1 to stop Prowl) and actually is then able to drop some damage on L1 which gets transferred, but I like this because it damages his beasts. His turn the Neraphs start eating my WGRC and Hex Hunters countinue to jam me up, but now he has to get really close to do anything.
So on my turn B3 does the usual Impending Doom and Feat, kills a ton of stuff. He can't completely clear the flag but in the end I got rid of all the annoying targets and some beasts. Now my opponent starts to Frenzy, or passes but has to sit on Fury, so his army quickly loses productivity. The Bolt Thrower and Naga frenzy and charge into my Devs. The Neraphs are ok and continute to eat my WGRC. The game is starting to tile in my favor, but he has scored first. I am able to wiggle around a single WGRC each time to contest his flag until I can get a Dev on it.
From here on out I spare you further detail, suffice to say I get a Dev to contest his flag and all he can do is feed Beasts to B3 to stop me from auto winning on scenario. I gladly consume them and eventually win on scenario anyway.
Lessons Learned
I had a great and gracious opponent who was always fair to remind me of a few things I kept fogetting, like the Naga having crit-Shadowbind, and so on. It helps when your opponent is a very nice fellow because there are no "gotchas" to ruin the game. I hope I was as gracious back to him, as I generally try to be a forgiving opponent. I hate winning because my opponent didn't know B3 could X, or Rockets were boosted damage, etc. So the lesson is: be a good opponent, but also remember those rules! Not everyone will be as nice and remind you.
As for my army, it worked exactly as intended. We talked after the game and my opponent was very serious about me dropping Vlad1 and winning the ranged game. I didn't see anyway that happens unless I get some really lucky dice rolls and he screws up. I don't think I played stellar, but I played just better than my opponent which I guess is what counts?
But my B3 list played out exactly as intended where I lose the early game but grind out a late game win by using B3 to eat the opponents army. I think B3 literally killed 75% of my opponents stuff as eventually he just had to feed models into that "Impending" black hole. So all told I stuck to my plan and it worked.Overall Conclusions
Loving Khador right now, but good riddance to SR2016. I like 2017 much better. We will see how these lists play out in that enviroment, but they were designed with both SRs in mind, so I don't imagine I will do much refining. I also dodged Ghost Fleet this time (no Cryx, which was weird) so I am still not sure how that matchup goes into a good player. I feel I have a 50/50 chance with Vlad1 anyway. B3 is still a beast and I still consider him best played as a scenario monster, not an assassin. He just keeps that assassination threat in his back pocket.
Anyway, was a great time and good note to go out on with Khador. Not sure what faction I will hop to next, thinking Grymkin as I love the models and want to get into Hordes. But of course The Motherland will always be calling me home, so I imagine I will be back by the end of the year.
Hope you enjoyed the read!
