mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on May 28, 2017 0:42:43 GMT
I was half awake and started missing on this. It was one of their goals to make him interesting in mark iii, and one of the first utter failures that I encountered. Tree Walker is best, but just not enough, and I don't think I've seen a solo ambush yet in my meta.
My three thoughts were defensive strike, rapid strike, and greivous wounds. GW is my favorite, but I'm not even sure it is sufficient to get me to play him.
What would you want him to have?
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Post by macdaddy on May 28, 2017 4:03:04 GMT
I was half awake and started missing on this. It was one of their goals to make him interesting in mark iii, and one of the first utter failures that I encountered. Tree Walker is best, but just not enough, and I don't think I've seen a solo ambush yet in my meta. My three thoughts were defensive strike, rapid strike, and greivous wounds. GW is my favorite, but I'm not even sure it is sufficient to get me to play him. What would you want him to have? Give him Grevious Wounds and or Precision strike. Give him an additional doe of damage against warjacks too. Then he'll be the light jack/beast hunter he was meant to be.
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Post by TrollBossJusmu on May 28, 2017 9:45:00 GMT
I would love to see some synergy element with beasts like give him throwing knife with Bait the line or something similar.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on May 28, 2017 12:15:19 GMT
Perhaps instead of it having an extra die against warbeasts it could get armor piercing against them. That would do it for me.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on May 28, 2017 13:35:00 GMT
I like the armor piercing idea a lot. Other things that came to mind were anatomical precision (kinda meh) or something like Alten Ashley has where there is damage on hit, regardless of the roll.
Armor piercing against warbeasts might well do the job for me. I'll have to think about it.
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Post by Trollock on May 28, 2017 15:15:49 GMT
Its not allowed in themes yet, so it is not really worth playing. If it becomes allowed in for example Nothkin theme it will most likely be free, and then ill play it. Sad but true...
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on May 28, 2017 20:58:26 GMT
Trollock, what if we assumed it was allowed in all the themes? What would you want it to have to start considering it as valid competition for your free solo slots? For me I think the big problem is that it is a huge investment that is unlikely to get more than one or two attacks (of mediocre impact against his preferred prey) in a game, and I will take a chronicler or Janissa or whelps, each of which probably contributes nearly every turn over that every time. I almost wonder if what he needs is not a power-up, but to cost less. Two seems too cheap, and I'm not sure which way I would feel three is wrong, so it might be a good spot?
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Post by grabsnikk on May 28, 2017 22:22:49 GMT
I think it needs to be cheaper such as 1-2 points non theme. Or free in theme. If it had Armour Pierce and Refuge it would be super interesting to take against hordes lists. I would be fine with it losing dismember if it meant it got armour piercing. Then it could be relevant against both warmachine and hordes.
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mattmcd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 521
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Post by mattmcd on May 29, 2017 0:21:24 GMT
I'm ok with it being beast specific. I sorta love the theme. It would make ADR more interesting with Slag in for Warmachine and Skinners in for Hordes.
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Post by Trollock on May 29, 2017 6:31:15 GMT
Trollock, what if we assumed it was allowed in all the themes? What would you want it to have to start considering it as valid competition for your free solo slots? For me I think the big problem is that it is a huge investment that is unlikely to get more than one or two attacks (of mediocre impact against his preferred prey) in a game, and I will take a chronicler or Janissa or whelps, each of which probably contributes nearly every turn over that every time. I almost wonder if what he needs is not a power-up, but to cost less. Two seems too cheap, and I'm not sure which way I would feel three is wrong, so it might be a good spot? I think we are sort of past the point of no return on how themes work to make the skinner a valid CHOICE. If it is not allowed in a theme list, you are severely crippling yourself by taking it for sure. not only are you losing out on the free points that a theme provides, but you are also playing a sub par model. If a skinner cost 0 points but was not allowed in a theme, i STILL would be very hard pressed to ever consider playing it. We are getting close though perhaps. If it IS allowed in a future theme, basically any other solo we have is more valuable. If i could take a free skinner or a free [insert other solo here] i would basically always pick the other solo. The final option is that a free skinner is the only possible theme benefit. Then i would play him ofc, but then he is not a CHOICE. So, if the skinner is ever to be a valid CHOICE, then he has to be better than at least some of the other solos. not point-for-point, but model-for-model. Maybe they can give him weapon master? (snicker...) They could start by looking at his defensive stats. They could say that "ok, lets go crazy" and bump him to DEF 14 base. That leads to incredible levels of DEF against warbeasts while in a forest, but more importantly that means that other things have a hard time killing him too. He could easily get proper stealth too, and 8 boxes could help him against blasts and such. all of a sudden he is a decent contesting piece. He does something that our other solos do not do. He could also get "Luck" or something similar so that he does not miss his one precious attack. Even with a theme that allows him, he would need some serious attention before i played him for free IF i could choose another solo for free as well.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on May 29, 2017 16:26:06 GMT
Those seem like good ideas, too. I realized this morning that he is basically identical to a Fennblade against non-beats, and only one die better against beasts, who have a lot more than 4 extra hit points. Oh, and he only ever gets one attack per turn compared to the Fennblade's potential three. And he costs over twice as much. Ugh. No wonder no one plays him.
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A-Mo
Junior Strategist
Posts: 204
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Post by A-Mo on May 29, 2017 18:16:01 GMT
Trollock pretty much summed it up.
If he were a cheap point filler allowed in Theme, I'd have one in a couple lists. Lots of my theme builds are usually 1 or 2 points down. I couldn't see him going any over 2pts, since I'd almost always rather max my stone at that point.
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cuberic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by cuberic on May 29, 2017 19:47:53 GMT
He gains hunters mark.
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Post by dicebedamned on May 30, 2017 12:21:08 GMT
Armour Piercing sounds a good start - could justify it as, to a Skinner, a jack is just another type of beast to hunt, one where you need to know exactly where to stick the blade - though I think that should be on both beasts and jacks - and then drop the extra dice for beasts.
Maybe increase his attacks to two, and make them a decent P+S too?
Real stealth would certainly help, as would boosting his def - I mean, come on, this dude is fighting beasts with no armour, you'd expect him to be light on his feet!
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Post by The Huntsman on May 30, 2017 12:38:42 GMT
Mark Target.
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