Strongly thinking about Kossites, talk me down ;-)

If you already own the models, sure why not give it a try.

If you do not own them, maybe just donate $50 to a charity instead. It will probably make you happier and help someone in need.

They may have a place in SR17, running on to contest an outside scenario element, especially if you are playing more of a Jack Brick in theme

OK, can we talk seriously about this list for just a few minutes?

I'm thinking about this as a second list to pair with an 8 warjack Karchev Jaws list. So I've got heavy armor cracking. I'm looking for something that murderizes dudespam, especially matchups into which you don't want to throw 8 jacks (think double sentinels). (As an aside, the other stuff I'm toying with for my second list includes Zerkova 1 Legion, maybe a retooled Butcher 3 list with a full assassin boat, or Vlad 1 rocket spam. You get the idea).

So... I've got a couple of questions.

1) The List

Having thought about it more in terms of what I want the list *to do*, I think I should take the Woodsmen down to a min unit and drop a Manhunters, and add in Scouts. This gives me multiple rounds of dude removal. Strictly speaking, I think this is a better list... I'm trading four kinda crappy Kossites and a Manhunters I had to pay for for 4 snipers. I like the 4 snipers, and now all of the sudden this list feels like it's got a Ranged Game. OK, not a Vlad 1 ranged game, but still...

War Room Army

Khador - Strakenwolf

Theme: Jaws of the Wolf
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army

Assault Kommander Strakhov & Kommandos - WJ: +22
- Assault Kommander Strakhov & Kommandos (Cont.)
- Conquest - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22)
- Destroyer - PC: 14

Manhunter - PC: 0
Yuri the Axe - PC: 6

Kayazy Assassins - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Kayazy Assassin Underboss - PC: 0
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kossite Woodsmen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7
Widowmaker Scouts - Leader & 3 Grunts: 8

THEME: Jaws of the Wolf

2) Tactics ... and To Ambush, or Not To Ambush

Auraco, you're exactly right about spell deployment... Invol Resolve on the Conquest, Quicken on the Assassins (Turn 1), and Last Stand to taste. The Assassins main drawback is the inability to get the alpha against SPD 6 dudes with a 2" weapon. Quick TOTALLY fixes that. And, if the enemy has stuff that sees through stealth, they've got to deal with DEF 15. Take that!

So a big question is whether or not to ambush with the Kossites. Arguments "for" are obvious. But I think there are 2 good arguments against.

(1) LAST STAND. You can put Last Stand on them on Turn 1, after you Advance Deploy but before you run them up into or behind a forest. Now, they're both a pain in the butt sniper unit AND something that heavy armor needs to worry about. Take that!! Also, you've got AD, so they're way up the board and flanking anyway after a turn 1 run. If you don't use AD and ambush on Turn 2, you're probably never going to get Last Stand on them - CMD 7 and a RNG 6 spell just aren't conducive to it. And, if you use it, either Strakhov is off too far to the side, or you didn't really ambush way upfield so why'd you do it?

(2) SCREENING YURI. Yuri is a big investment. He's really Killy, but he dies kinda easy. ARM 14 and 8 boxes isn't so good. If you deploy the Kossites with Yuri and move them around like a little boat, you can zoom a last stand dude out in front of Yuri. Want to risk my free strike? BOOM. I explode, but so what!

In terms of the Feat, with this army set up, it's kinda meh, but maybe less meh than I first thought. Yuri and the Manhunters will appreciate the ARM bonus. But, then again, so will the Eliminators. They have 5 boxes. So now instead of needing to bounce ARM 16 to kill one, its ARM 19. All of the sudden a ton of shooty stuff (that might see through stealth) is now more likely to not kill them than kill them. They probably don't die to some random grunt in melee. Also, they (and everything else) now have Tough. This army has a lot of dudes...and these dudes will appreciate Tough.

So, folks...chime in. Let me know what you think.

(And am I totally crazy to think about playing this instead of Z1, V1 or B3? Crap...)

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but Last Stand only applies to melee attack and damage rolls, so in terms of a pain in the butt sniper unit, kossites still won't be at rat 4. That misses Winter Guard on average.

They still won't be that scary to heavy armor either, depending. At pow 8 on average with the extra dice they will do 3 damage on the charge against arm 19. Against single wound you can get the kill, but anything with boxes won't care that much. I feel like if you are going to play kossites you miss out on a lot by not ambushing.

Yeah, probably right about that.

Most of my games only go 3 or 4 rounds so it will be interesting to see how this plays vs taking a 4 pt solo and some mechanics

Depending what you want your Kayazy-heavy Jaws list to accomplish, I'd consider Zerkova1 for it. But she does nothing for Kossites, which was the purpose of this discussion.

Zerkova1
[Insert battlegroup of choice - could be a collosal or a few other jacks - you have 38 points]
Forgeseer
-Destroyer
Forgeseer
-Destroyer
Kayazy Assasins (max) with Underboss
Eliminators
Eliminators
Widowmakers

I think that's a pretty good anti-gunline list with stealth, clouds and high-DEF on quite a few models. In melee the Kayazy are really hard to hit, especially if Zerkova uses her clouds well. Then there's her feat. Ghost Walk makes getting backstrike bonuses much easier.

But again, nothing for Kossites, who really need hit and damage buffs. Outside of Last Stand, that only really leaves Irusk1 (feat + Battlelust: but it's unlikely he can get Battlelust in the right place at the right time, given it's not an upkeep). Vlad1 of course, but he can polish anything.

Yuri looks less over-priced if you treat him as a buff solo who has combat ability, and you plan to include the models he buffs anyway. Especially if those models are free, which in Jaws they might be. 6 points for three hard-hitting models (if you don't want the other free solos) is not bad at all.

I've enjoyed Yuri and friends with Strakhov1 before, as they have a scarily long threat range under his feat (in a janky pathfinder heavy list). I would at least consider them with Strakhov1 in Jaws and probably Strakhov2 as well - a threshering Yuri with Last Stand could situationally be very useful (even shield walled MoW Shocktroopers are at risk of a one hit kill, and he could get 3 of them).
Kossites should be all dead before they get inside his command range
I don't understand this - if it's a reference to Yuri's Elite Cadre, it applies wherever they are on the battlefield (and even once Yuri is dead).