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Post by grimgor on May 15, 2017 9:05:45 GMT
Hi guys, i'm new here but i play warmachines since 2 years and i need some advice for beating cryx. I usually fight against denny 1, skarre 1 and goreshade 2 full banes. The problem for me is that cryx has always an answer for trolls. Stalkers give grevious wound and have idiot threat ranges (13 or 15 with the solo), satyxis raiders have 2 attacks so if u tough one u are killed on the second, force barrier prevent blast form the bomber and def 16 is too high most of the time for shoot them. Denny 1 give parasite and her feat for a -5 arm, with that he manage to take a mk under doomy 3 or Ragnor feat. Her feat is a real pain, as she destroy my army and my next turn i can really do nothing (-2 mat, force and speed). Same problem with skarre (+5 force) and her jacks are +5 arm after he killed something, and stalkers def 15 are very hard to hit. Goreshade 2 with banes can give -4 arm, i tried yesterday grissel 2 with arm 23 MK, but it wasn't enough again lol as he could one round him again. Banes have high armor and tough that really help against bomber's blasts and 4 banes charging can one round a troll beast, they have prowl and gore 2 give stealth, i dont think we have real answers against that expect grim 1 perhaps, but after trying him i dont think he is so good in this meta lol. I know that BoH is the obvious answer for Goreshade 2 full banes, but i would consider a pairing as if i were on a solo tourney, and i dont think BoH is so good in the meta. In fact, most of the time i lose the attrition game, so must we go on KTC every time ? But that is not so easy if he played good.
So have you some warlocks, units or some advices for helping me against cyx ?
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on May 15, 2017 9:19:45 GMT
I usually do not drop something that relies om high arm. For this i use my grim2 build (and in MK2 my Grim1 build) Which is about
Grim2 Runebearer 2x bomber to nuke warjacks and non blast resistant infantry 1x full highwaymen + sorcerer 1x full bushwhackers + ua 1x full farrow brigands + warlord 1x gobber chef
In my opnion this list can handle 2-3 heavies or any lights Has enough volume of ranged attack to decimate units can handle incorporeal (the highwaymen) can handle stealth (bombers + magesight) can see through forest (magesight) does not rely on the Stone unit so it frees up points Some limited fury management with the chef
But ofc this is related to my meta, where I do not see ghost fleet for example.
Another build i have had success with is (build is not complete) Grissel2 (pod) 2x bomber mauler swamp troll janissa 4x runeshapers
The runshapers make short work of any cryx unit I encounter in my meta.
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Post by tiberius on May 15, 2017 10:50:28 GMT
Against cryx, you don't have to rely on armor cracking, mass infantry removal, things that remove from play, situationally magic weapons, and accurate attacks are what you need. Anything that can knock them down to help you hit, anything that has a naturally accurate attack like toughalos or champions, Guys like Madrak 2 and his feat, will have a field day with most cryx lists.
I play cryx as my main army, and trolls as my secondary army. Cryx probably will get the alpha strike on you, and are good at getting into places you don't think they can. They can mitigate terrain easily with a slew of abilities and often ignore your guys and free strikes when moving into position. But anything kills them. But that is okay with the cryx player because the only piece that is not expendable to him is the warcaster and 9 times out of 10, their game plan is to get their caster on yours, or land a good debuff on your caster and put him in the ground.
Denegra 1 - a real ball buster, easily swings trolls high armor into something her gun lines or whatever she brings (she really can run anything well) into the dirt. If you can ignore stealth, you will make her play way back to avoid getting shot. The grims have a lot of game into her. Tie up her arc nodes or destroy them, force her to get close to use her very powerful spell list. Weather her feat turn. It is usually an uphill fight against denegra, but a stealth ignoring warlock with a nice long range attack can keep her really honest.
Skarre 1 - powerhouse. She can turn even a lowly mechanithrall or 5 into murder bots that 2-3 of them can drop a heavy on her feat turn and she can turn her entire horde of dudes into very accurate monsters. Lots of infantry removal is key here, and she is still the weak link in that list as if you leave her with even 3-5 guys, she can get it done. She has no way of protecting herself, will probably be taking shield guards. My advice would be have some infantry sweepers (scatter gunners, fire eaters, mountain king? maybe not, too many points in one basket against her) and try and plow to her. Taking her out is the win scenario, she needs to play midfield to get the most out of her spell list and feat, and she will have lots of focus from her focus factory (an additional +1d6 each turn).
Goreshade 2 with all the banes. That is getting a lot scarier with the CID changes coming to banes and the bane theme. Cheaper, more powerful units. Again, just killing the guys doesn't mean a whole lot to the caster and the banes will kill what they touch. Warriors hunt heavies and they are very good at it. Apparition can increase the normally slow bane threat ranges and dark shroud will pretty much negate the stone benefits. Tartarus will fix accuracy problems. So I would recommend killing tartarus and maybe bringing something along like wrong eye and snap jaw for star crossed, it really makes banes cry. Mass infantry sweepers will help or just a bunch of mooks to tie up the banes while you get a bead on goreshade. Except goreshade doesn't need to be anywhere near the fight like skarre does. A smart player will keep him back, I always like to move him up to use his ice sword (because its awesome! autostationary dude) and I get him killed. You want to kill tartarus, unit attachments, bring things that ignore tough (band of heroes may be good in this matchup). Use the bane lack of accuracy against them.
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Post by grimgor on May 15, 2017 13:22:14 GMT
Thanks guys for these answers. You both talk about grim 2, i think too he can be an answer for deneghra 1. But even with mage sight stalkers are def 15 (for skarre), that mean bombers need 10+ for hiting that's not so good, but if u hit 2 times u can destroy one of them. My opponent play 2 lists of skarre : one with 11 stalkers (!) and one with 4, his colossus and some satyxis raiders. The 11 stalkers list is a total no match i think but the other isn't so much easy to play against. His colossus is arm 24 on feat turn, he was thinking that only ragnor can deal with that. Grim 2 can make pressure on KTC if i keep my feat for that but i'm not sure i can do that because he can make more pressure than me, but i will try.
I never tried to kill to kill deneghra's arcnode, because really hard to hit but i will try it too.
What do you think about this list to handle these casters :
Grim 2 in theme
Bomber BOmber Pyre Runebearer
Fire eaters fire eaters Highwaymens max with sorcerer burrowers max thumper crew
whelps braylen
i tried grissel in thme KC against goreshade 2 but it didnt work. MK arm 23 got killed by a jack and 6 banes, highwaymens cant shoot stealth banes, and bomber blasts did nothing most of the time (need 8 to get a wound and can be ignored by tough)
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petef
Read Page 5
Posts: 24
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Post by petef on May 15, 2017 14:42:56 GMT
I've also used Grim2 as a cryx drop, but in PoD theme. Admittedly this was not against blast immune stuff, but did handle most stuff that I have seen reasonably well. Grim should look to take out valuable CA's and solos to reduce their lists effectiveness. Or use bloodlure to increase the damage output of his beasts. With tough and 8's to wound, you need to hit the banes with a mortality before you start lobbing bombs at them. Also the banes only get 9" threat, so you should get a couple of rounds of shooting at them. The trap that the pyg drops can help against raiders as they are taking auto Pow10's. I do think the knot is pretty much an auto-include with Grim2 because you really need mortality to land a lot of the time, especially from the runebearer so you are not exposing Grim as much. It also helps the odds when going for ranged assassinations. The Mirage earthborn was a threat that a lot of cryx caster have to respect, even after a trample, still has 3 fury to buy/boost. My list was:-
Grim2 Runebearer (free) Bomber x 2 Mauler Earthborn (Mirage) Swamp troll Bouncer Welps (free) Janissa (free) Min Stone + CA Knot
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Post by allinontrolls on May 15, 2017 14:44:09 GMT
I played flanzers gunny list a few times vs cryx. It's a really good cryx drop. You got explosivo for magic and alot of blasts and aoe s to clear infantry.
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Post by grimgor on May 15, 2017 15:48:35 GMT
Yes true mortality help for blast, i didn't think about it, i will try this. WIth grim 2 in PoD it may be more hard to trigger mark target, isn't it ? My list in theme has better match ups against dude spam, i would play an another PoD list with this pairing. What do you think about horgle 2 to set on fire banes and satyxis ?
What do you play with gunny ? Because u have nothing for the stealth, satyxis raiders are immune to blast and banes are resistant to this.
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Post by schrodingercat on May 15, 2017 16:07:00 GMT
I have played grim1 into cryx several times recently using a list inspired by a thread a couple of weeks ago. It has game into ghost fleet and non-ghost fleet cryx. conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0b595T0rc60h0jbL7dfJfJ0k0mTrollbloods Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia (Grim 1) Grim Angus [+29] - Dire Troll Blitzer [16] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Mountain King [36] - Troll Axer [10] - Troll Bouncer [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(4)] Janissa Stonetide [0(4)] Northkin Shaman [0(4)] Northkin Shaman [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Stone Scribe Elder [3]
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petef
Read Page 5
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Post by petef on May 15, 2017 18:38:47 GMT
Yeah, you are not getting much work out of the feat compared to a more infantry build. You can always use a melee beast or one of the stone scribes to mark the target if you really need it. I like to still have a mauler and the knot. I've played Grim2 without the knot, and have missed a really important boosted mortality. That can often be game over, or at least a much more uphill struggle. The mauler is really fro rage on the bombers to let them trade against other heavies. But it also lets the lights both hit at P+S 18 once you add Stone CA, mortality and rage, hence you can trade them for heavies, especially ones that have been softened up with a bit of shooting as well.
I have not yet played horgle2 yet (still in pieces on my painting desk), so I cannot comment too much on his practicality into those sort of match-ups. However, my other main army is protectorate, and although it might be conformation bias, I always worry about relying on fire rolls going your way, especially from potentially scattering bomber shots. That can definitely not work out as well as you hoped.
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Post by grimgor on May 18, 2017 8:57:49 GMT
Hi guys, i would have your mind for doomy 2 into cryx, i was thinking it could be good into skarre ? But i dunno into denny or goreshade, but i guess it's correct for denny. I didn't try it yet, but i will try grim 2 too, the tiberius post let me think the best way is trying a KTC. For doomy 2 i want to try the not PoD version with Rök and lanyssa, but the Pod version give u a another body and that isn't insignificant.
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Post by tiberius on May 18, 2017 13:43:30 GMT
Beasts and doomy2 into denny should be good, as minuses to speed no longer prevents charges and with the threat range that doomy's feat and Lanyssa can give a beast, you should have no problems...unless you run into incorporeal spam like ghost fleet. But against the revenant crew, the RFP would be really strong, especially with a berserking rok that can also move to get into better positions between swings.
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Post by grimgor on May 18, 2017 15:48:46 GMT
U can't RFP and berserk at the same time or i'm wrong ? And i remenber that in mk2 u can't use snacking if u werent' wounded, is taht changed ?
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Post by tiberius on May 18, 2017 16:14:49 GMT
That is right, my bad. RFP prevents berserk. Though I am not 100% sure about the snacking, I think you can use it now if you are not injured.
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Post by robobengt on May 19, 2017 7:45:24 GMT
Snacking can be used even if you're not injured, but it only works on living models.
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