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Post by Harr0wed on May 11, 2017 15:27:56 GMT
I got into Hordes at the start of mkiii and the two armies that weren't being played in my area were Skorne and Circle. After the universal disdain for mkiii Skorne, I decided to buy into Circle. I'm finding that they really aren't my play style and I'm wondering if Skorne is. What are the pros and cons? I know they've made a bit better but I'm not worried about having an army that's a guaranteed winner or anything like that.
I'm looking for something to handle heavy armor better, but not having to worry too much about having a linchpin to hang the whole army. Any info is much appreciated and thank you ahead of time.
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156 
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Post by cassus on May 11, 2017 15:42:55 GMT
The major con to Skorne to get out of the way is that since the launch of MK3 we have been 6 months behind everyone else. Granted the skorne errata fixed a lot of that but we are now behind everyone else in theme forces and the single theme we have is widely regarded as garbage.
If your looking for armor cracking Skorne has that in abundance with our beasts being able to have their damage output increased by beast handles. However if you want to avoid lynch pins in an army you will have a hard time building a list that will be viable without beast handlers and at least one titan gladiator.
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Post by Harr0wed on May 11, 2017 17:24:10 GMT
The major con to Skorne to get out of the way is that since the launch of MK3 we have been 6 months behind everyone else. Granted the skorne errata fixed a lot of that but we are now behind everyone else in theme forces and the single theme we have is widely regarded as garbage. I play Convergence so being behind is something I've become accustomed to, lol. How screwed are you without beast handlers? I'mean assuming you mention the Titan Gladiator for Rush? |
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on May 11, 2017 17:45:26 GMT
Compared to Circle, we in Skorne play much more directly. If you play Beast heavy you will develop lynchpin models, Gladiators, Handlers, Krea's. Otherwise though we smash face and take hits.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on May 11, 2017 17:50:00 GMT
The major con to Skorne to get out of the way is that since the launch of MK3 we have been 6 months behind everyone else. Granted the skorne errata fixed a lot of that but we are now behind everyone else in theme forces and the single theme we have is widely regarded as garbage. I play Convergence so being behind is something I've become accustomed to, lol. How screwed are you without beast handlers? I'mean assuming you mention the Titan Gladiator for Rush? I've had a successful list without them. The one. We really are designed for them. Assume at least a min unit in every list. |
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on May 11, 2017 17:58:23 GMT
Without beast handles you lose several things which are very very good and that you can't get anywhere else in the faction.
1.Free charges - have them b2b with a beast and it charges for free
2. Enrage and Medicate - Giving any beast +2 str is really good and is how we hit as hard as we do. Medicate also lets us keep our beasts in the game without spending furry from our castor to heal them.
3. Condition - the ability to remove fury allows us to run our beast hotter without freezing. This is especially important with all the support beasts we have, looking at you Krea and Agonizer.
Not to mention their 2" anatomical precision whips can sometimes really get you out of a jam if you need to kill a single wound infantry model.
And yes I mentioned the gladiator for rush. +2 to the threat range of any of our beasts is very important with our base speed of 4 or even 3 if you play with the ardus beasts (which you should they are good).
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didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
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Post by didder on May 11, 2017 18:19:59 GMT
To me Skorne has proven to be very position reliant. I've been with the faction for two years now, and games seem to develop around how successful you are at positioning things around the krea 3" bubble, the Agonizer bubble, the Orin bubble, and the shield guard bubbles. That's before you throw in a caster like Zaadesh2 who has multiple clouds out, and countercharge lanes to keep open. You mentioned an avoidance of lynchpin models. Skorne is definitely a faction with lynchpin models. Khador, for example, is a faction that does almost everything without lynchpins, besides Joe.
Another thing that's stood out to me over time is that our beasts with shields define the faction a lot. Sentry, Tiberion, Cyclops Brute. They're sort of the only beast models that didn't get gimped in the edition change when they rolled out the Agonizer's debuff and made the rest of the faction worse to compensate for the lesser's strength.
Like trolls, we're prone to support bloat. Beast handlers are almost always necessary. A krea or agonizer, but not both because, well, bloat, are usually necessary. Orin is usually necessary. Extoller Soulward is very often necessary. Often a Willbreaker is wanted. It all adds up fast. If you tend to stick to ADR a lot of this problem can be mitigated.
If you like Cataphracts or heavy infantry, only the Ferox are viable right now, with the Incindiarii and Arcuarii being considered big ol' sacks of sad (not that I've really tried them). Cetratii are still viable, but the lowly Karax might outshine them.
In summary, Skorne light beasts except the Brute, Skorne heavies except the Sentry, Skorne heavy infantry except the Ferox, are all full of moderate shortcomings even after the erretta. Def 12 Arm 14 is a terrible stat line. Spd 4 def10 arm 19 is a terrible stat line. Def11 Arm15 5boxes is a terrible stat line. These model classes assume the krea aura and agonizer aura are in effect everywhere all the time.
Our character beasts are quite good. Our light infantry are quite good. Our Warlocks are quite good. Of our non-support models, there's a good balance and lack of auto includes. When you guess correctly which you should bring, a krea or an agonizer, and the opponent doesn't deal with it by a spray or some such before it blunts a good handful of activations, then Skorne usually does great.
Overall I've been severely frustrated with the faction, though since the erretta it's gotten better. I do feel that once my collection rounds out more the frustration will continue to ease. Should go without saying, though, that this game is hard, and Skorne is a hard faction for reasons of the first paragraph. In another year I'm hoping to finish my painting, and then get on Vassal or play games against myself to practice and get better. I expect to be happy with the faction by then.
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Post by fragpalm on May 11, 2017 19:47:10 GMT
The newest iteration of Skorne is exceptionally good, in terms of competitiveness as well as fun. It runs so much diversity you're likely to find your playstyle inside the faction somewhere.
Shooting? Rasheth, the Hexies, and even Morghoul2 like guns and run them very well. I would go so far as to say a Skorne gunline can be one of the best Hordes gunlines available. The Mammoth alone is a crazy shooting powerhouse when backed by a Soulward (Eyeless and magical) and Rush (+2spd, Gladiator's animus), nevermind the Cannoneers and exceptional Reivers. The Hydra is great here as well if you're willing to get a little closer for your sprays.
And you can be fast! Think Legion is a bit ridiculous with their 14" threats, or that Doomshaper2 is unrivaled in how he makes his heavies rocket across the board? Enter Makeda1 with Molik Karn. Xerxis2 is ultra fast as well, generally boasting beasts with 13"-15" threats. Morghoul1 needs a mention, granting +2str and spd with Abuse. If beasts aren't your thing, try Ferox that threat 17" with Xerxis1's movement buffing ability. Even the Animantarax is very quick once whipped, and is currently improving with the CID.
Most people come to Skorne for the tankiness, and they're not wrong. Xerxis1, Rasheth and the Zaals raise armour in their own ways, and do it incredibly well. Combine these great casters with Sentries, Tiberion, the Mammoth and the Agonizer's aura, or that of the Krea's, and you're looking at some sky-high armour. Immortals with Zaal2 can be a real puzzle for the opponent when he sees so many small bases rush up the board at arm22. Cetrati under Xerxis1 are so tanky it's almost unreasonable; I've had these guys tank colossals without breaking a sweat.
Skorne tends to obliterate anything it touches. The damage buffs are plentiful, but even without spells our beasts can put out more damage than they often need to with Beast Handlers and great personal power. Bronzebacks are perfect for this, but Tiberion, the Soldier, Despoiler and Molik can also go in on a hard target with confidence. Skorne gargantuans are melee powerhouses; I'm not sure there's anything in the whole game that can outperform an Enraged Hydra under Makeda1 for damage, at 15 potential P+S20 (Enraged) attacks with Jackhammer and its own activation. Just maybe an Enraged Despoiler with Ignite under Xerxis2 on feat and critting Brutal Damage (weaponmaster P+S21s)...
And then you've got weird casters like Mordikaar, who brings a def skew in an armour faction (and does it quite well with Archidons + Keltarii/Ferox/Swordsmen/etc.), or Zaadesh, who specializes in reactive damage. Even Makeda2 brings a tool that is almost unique: Stay Death. It's our big list right now, and having tried it lately (4-0) it's hilarious and dangerous.
All this to say that if you're happy with the aesthetics of Skorne, and willing to invest in models to make a certain angle work, you can find virtually anything you want in the faction.
Just don't expect to easily beat Khador...
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Post by Harr0wed on May 11, 2017 20:07:30 GMT
I got into mkii with Khador and from what I've seen they've only become scarier. The aesthetics are the main thing holding me back at the moment. Not really a fan of the idea of torturing the beasts. I don't think it'll be that much of a negative though.
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cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
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Post by cassus on May 11, 2017 21:15:14 GMT
I got into mkii with Khador and from what I've seen they've only become scarier. The aesthetics are the main thing holding me back at the moment. Not really a fan of the idea of torturing the beasts. I don't think it'll be that much of a negative though. We arnt torturing the beasts we are simply encouraging them. Khador is a real problem for us. I still don't have a list that I feel has a 50/50 chance of beating their Harkovitch Jack spam. |
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on May 11, 2017 21:22:27 GMT
All My PGBH do is point out the guys that stole my beasts toys. Like that warpwolf, he stole your bone Mr. gladiator. I will tell you a secret he is hiding it in his LEG. You go get it back now. Good boy. And that caster over there? He stole one of the skulls you hang on your flags Mr. Karn. Yea he is hiding it inside his head, go get it back.
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steck
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by steck on May 11, 2017 21:44:20 GMT
I really like the fluff for skorne torturing beasts. I think it's cool that we have developed rudimentary brain surgery and use it to drive metal spikes into Cyclops brains to help them see into the future.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on May 13, 2017 23:15:12 GMT
in MK1, circle was the UP faction. Since then, it's been Skorne, still is skorne, doesn't look like it's changing from skorne anytime soon. On top of that, Hordes, by itself, is also rather nerfed in comparison to Warmachine. If you take a jack's stat and ability line and compare its price to a beast with the exact same stat and ability line, beasts will always be more expensive, sometimes by quite a few points as well. This is because beasts have an animus, a spell our warlock can use in addition to his own. However, our warlocks automatically have less spells and abilities than warmachine's warcasters because they receive animi. Conclusion, warlocks are nerfed versions of warcasters; if their beasts are suppose to alleviate that, why are you making it cost more points?
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