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Post by Anonymous on May 11, 2017 13:43:29 GMT
Ha, you'll see more Warmahorde players here when PP allows more than one obscure game store in SoCal. The GW bias here is real. That's not Privateer's problem. That's a game store problem. Privateer doesn't make game stores. They sell to distributors who sell to stores or they sell directly to stores who sign up with them. I don't understand your statement.
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Post by Cryptix on May 11, 2017 14:37:50 GMT
Ha, you'll see more Warmahorde players here when PP allows more than one obscure game store in SoCal. The GW bias here is real. That's not Privateer's problem. That's a game store problem. Privateer doesn't make game stores. They sell to distributors who sell to stores or they sell directly to stores who sign up with them. I don't understand your statement. My local game store has asked for stock though, they just refuse to provide it. Or they do, but they only come in rarely and not consistent. This wouldn't be a problem is PP had a functional online store like GW, but half their things they refuse to sell online.
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Post by elladan52 on May 11, 2017 14:52:52 GMT
That's not Privateer's problem. That's a game store problem. Privateer doesn't make game stores. They sell to distributors who sell to stores or they sell directly to stores who sign up with them. I don't understand your statement. My local game store has asked for stock though, they just refuse to provide it. Or they do, but they only come in rarely and not consistent. This wouldn't be a problem is PP had a functional online store like GW, but half their things they refuse to sell online. Isn't that still the distributor's fault, not PPs? And the reason they don't sell online is to not take money from brick and mortar stores, so I'm not sure what your point is here.
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Post by Anonymous on May 11, 2017 15:01:38 GMT
My local game store has asked for stock though, they just refuse to provide it. Or they do, but they only come in rarely and not consistent. This wouldn't be a problem is PP had a functional online store like GW, but half their things they refuse to sell online. Isn't that still the distributor's fault, not PPs? And the reason they don't sell online is to not take money from brick and mortar stores, so I'm not sure what your point is here. I am also at a loss here. They could order directly from Privateer Press if they wanted to or they could go through their Distributors which, as mentioned, seem to not be fulfilling, but that isn't a Privateer problem. The intent of the online store for most consumers is as mentioned to not take money away from Brick and Mortars. That said, if there's only 1 store that isn't great in an area, that's a great time for someone who wants a store to scope the market and see if a new business is viable.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on May 11, 2017 15:03:35 GMT
My local game store has asked for stock though, they just refuse to provide it. Or they do, but they only come in rarely and not consistent. This wouldn't be a problem is PP had a functional online store like GW, but half their things they refuse to sell online. Isn't that still the distributor's fault, not PPs? And the reason they don't sell online is to not take money from brick and mortar stores, so I'm not sure what your point is here. Exactly. This is the regional distributor, not PP. I remember trying to buy product through my old store before I moved. I was good friends with the staff and when there was a delay or something was out of stock they would tell me "our distributor is a pain in the ass, we're trying to get in the order"
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Post by smoothcriminal on May 11, 2017 15:27:31 GMT
Did Mk2 to Mk3 transition cost Wmh players? Yes, though there is no estimate how much. I guess we'll see at WTC. There was much debate over why, my personal opinion is that forced meta change with overhaul of models people already put work and money in does bad things to player loyalty.
What about future of Wmh? So far PP has been doing the right things in regards to game rules. Overpowered things get toned down, underpowered things get toned up. The year 2017 started with very timely errata and continued with multitude of good things rules-wise for the game, which is why I'm currently optimistic about it. I'm specifically not touching forum and pressganger conundrums, they were bad, but I guess the game design guys weren't the main say in those, at least that's what I believe in.
What about other games? After wmh it's easy to notice problems in other games. Sure, you can switch games for novelty sake, but I don't see a strictly better games out there, each has it's own problems. I personally picked up Infinity and Malifaux and think of them as Wmh redux, less overall released stuff, some bugs they figured out over wmh, some they haven't. 40k no thanks, GW has such a long history of bad decisions that some rules preview won't restore faith in them. We'll see if their new edition is good(protip: it probably isn't).
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on May 11, 2017 15:59:12 GMT
I think it looks worse than it is, because Mk.III gives people who were already on the way out an easy way to justify leaving. For a lot of people, if they were to leave the game tomorrow for whatever actual reason, they could get a feeling of superiority and satisfaction by saying "I didn't leave the game, the game left me when PP ruined it by _______."
This is probably a controversial statement, but...
Also, I feel like if players aren't willing to adapt to a new and ever-changing meta, new models, etc., then maybe losing them isn't a great loss. If someone quits the game because they can't steamroll everyone by crutching on the most powerful shenanigans in Mk.II and now have to adapt to fighting on a more level playing field, then maybe we don't need them. Now, if only they would stop coming online just to be negative, things would be great.
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rakier
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by rakier on May 11, 2017 18:53:05 GMT
I started playing WM from the very beginning of the game. I enjoyed casual games and playing in local tournaments. I was initially excited with the advent of MK2 but only played a handful of MK2 games due to the fact that timed turns/deathclock became the standard and casual play pretty much vanished. Everyone was all about the tournaments and having to do the clock thing to prepare. That's all fine and good, but I was really into the game just to have fun and enjoy it. The use of timed turns/deathclock really made it way to stressful to me. So, despite having a huge collection of models representing all factions and thousands of dollars of investment, I basically dropped off the scene.
Right about the time MK3 came out, my son and nephew started having me teach them the game so we could play. I immediately got up to speed, bought all the faction decks, rulebooks, etc... and started playing while teaching them the game. We have had a blast with our casual games and they are getting pretty good at it. However, neither one of them really wants to use timed turns as they have said they wouldn't play if they had to worry about that.
Now, I see so many things that make me leery about getting too deeply back into the game. First the changes the way rules for models are released. No stat cards really hurts. It was great getting the card with the model. I understand the rationale behind the change but like others have said before, it just makes me worry that there will be constant changes so keeping up will be next to impossible. Now I know people will say "just use WarRoom" but I have three other people depending on me for rules, etc... I cannot afford to have to purchase the faction decks for all of us to have our own seperate warroom accounts. Second, the anthology books going away. It was nice to be able to see all of the factions models in one place. Since I own models from all factions, it would require me purchasing all of the faction books instead and I can't afford that. I am not going to mention the forum issues, pressganger, etc... but all of these make me leery.
Anyway...I digress from the whole point of this. I have seen several newer players who get overwhelmed with the time turn issue, so much so that they never come back to the game. I have also had several people tell me that they think it is all about winning and/or tournaments so they don't think there is much point getting into a game where they just want to have fun but others don't. I know the death of casual play was what drove me from the game in MK2, so I wonder if that has something to do with new player retention in general, Just a thought.
For me and my kids/nephews, we are just gonna keep playing a game I love and have fun with it. We will use the cards and just print out what we need if we feel the need to update them. We will have fun. Hopefully we can get more casual play in the area but if not, that's what we will do.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on May 11, 2017 19:03:16 GMT
PP will eventually get all the cards online (the card database went up on their site today), and you could just print and play. That also will solve the issue of wanting the anthology books, as well as give you an up to date set of model stats rather than something that may have been errata'd.
As for your other issues, I think you bring up a good point. We all need to remember that Steamroller (including clocks) is a variant of Warmachine designed for tournament play. There is nothing wrong with playing off the clock or using custom scenarios or terrain features which aren't present in Steamroller tournaments.
Speaking of, why on earth are new players being pressured to play on the clock before they are ready?
I think the biggest danger to the game is that it becomes so competitive that we end up with insular, competitive communities which are unwelcoming to new players. It's too bad to hear that your meta has gone in that direction, but perhaps you can find those people who are into casual play and have a different way of playing?
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rakier
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 8
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Post by rakier on May 11, 2017 19:31:30 GMT
I can't really say why they are trying to play on clock. I think it is because everyone else is playing on the clock so they think that is how they "have" to play.
Honestly, I am not too active in the scene anymore since MK2. I just remember that the clock was what killed it for a few people I knew back in MK2. Our area used to be pretty big but I am not sure how thriving it is right now.
I have known guys that watched a couple of games (where of course they used clocks) and just decided it was too stressful for them to even attempt.
Also, when you look at forums, etc.. all you see talked about are tournaments, this list not being competitive, that list being OP, etc... It looks to the casual/new player like it is all about the competitions/tournaments. This may cause some people to shy away from it.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on May 12, 2017 1:11:57 GMT
Sounds like in your case it might be more of a meta issue than a universal player retention crisis. Of course, if your meta isn't welcoming to new players, it's not going to retain any new players who pop in. There's a store in my area that I don't go to very often because I don't like playing there. Fortunately, I have options, but if that were the only store, I might have a problem.
And yes, I agree with you that there is an issue with online negativity towards Warmachine. Perhaps rather than being directed towards salty forums/groups and the "three nerds who love this game so much they podcast about it complain about what how PP is screwing up and how X models are OP bullshit or unplayable trash" style of podcasts, new players should be pointed in the direction of online and IRL communities which are more positive (such as the Warmachine/Hordes for Beginners and Warmachine/Hordes Painting facebook groups).
Honestly, if Warmachine is in trouble (which is a premise I don't accept), it's probably as much if not more a result of what we as a community have done (pushed competitive play as the only option, created pillars of salt online) than anything PP has done lately**
**Okay, the PG thing sucks, but it sounds like that was something they had to do because of the legal issues
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 12, 2017 1:20:13 GMT
I think we can appreciate an in-between.
Rabid "YAAAAY EVERYTHING IS AWESOME SHUT UP!" yelling I find can be just as intimidating as negative screeches.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on May 12, 2017 1:27:04 GMT
I think we can appreciate an in-between. Rabid "YAAAAY EVERYTHING IS AWESOME SHUT UP!" yelling I find can be just as intimidating as negative screeches. Yeah, but no one ever accused the WMH community of being too positive
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 12, 2017 1:32:46 GMT
Yeah, but no one ever accused the WMH community of being too positive I have in the MKII days.
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Post by Azahul on May 12, 2017 1:34:17 GMT
Yeah, but no one ever accused the WMH community of being too positive I have in the MKII days. And the game has got a whole lot better since then
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