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Post by Cryptix on May 7, 2017 21:46:51 GMT
I seriously don't get why would hanybody want to change power up at all. It just works fine the way it is now, beasts have nearly unlimited fury, heck, they are just a bit overcosted. I'm triggered lol. You do realize that on average, there is not a single beast that if you leave even a single fury on them that will not become useless for a turn? Please read the rules before making assumptions.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 7, 2017 21:52:10 GMT
I seriously don't get why would hanybody want to change power up at all. It just works fine the way it is now, beasts have nearly unlimited fury, heck, they are just a bit overcosted. I'm triggered lol. You do realize that on average, there is not a single beast that if you leave even a single fury on them that will not become useless for a turn? Please read the rules before making assumptions. You realise that if your beast will die next turn (which is often the case, as with jacks), then frenzying Is immaterial? Jacks don't work with 1 focus unless it's like a hunter. You *need* to invest caster resources. Beasts don't have to do that, they can run mostly caster independent. Nerfing jacks doesn't make beasts better. Just saying that the world is dying under 1 focus jacks seems to miss the point.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 7, 2017 22:09:13 GMT
I seriously don't get why would hanybody want to change power up at all. It just works fine the way it is now, beasts have nearly unlimited fury, heck, they are just a bit overcosted. I'm triggered lol. You do realize that on average, there is not a single beast that if you leave even a single fury on them that will not become useless for a turn? Please read the rules before making assumptions. You realise that if your beast will die next turn (which is often the case, as with jacks), then frenzying Is immaterial? Jacks don't work with 1 focus unless it's like a hunter. You *need* to invest caster resources. Beasts don't have to do that, they can run mostly caster independent. Nerfing jacks doesn't make beasts better. Just saying that the world is dying under 1 focus jacks seems to miss the point.
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steck
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by steck on May 7, 2017 22:18:30 GMT
I seriously don't get why would hanybody want to change power up at all. It just works fine the way it is now, beasts have nearly unlimited fury, heck, they are just a bit overcosted. I'm triggered lol. You do realize that on average, there is not a single beast that if you leave even a single fury on them that will not become useless for a turn? Bronzeback, reptile hound, scarab pack, and Cyclops savage all have threshold 7, one fury and average dice means they all frenzy. I can check other factions too if you would like. Edit; glacier, sea, and mountain kings, mulg, rok, gorax, blightbringer, harrier, shreder, stinger, battle boar, bullsnapper, gun boar, razor boar, and the splatter boar all have a 6 or 7 threshold.
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Post by Cryptix on May 7, 2017 23:11:33 GMT
You do realize that on average, there is not a single beast that if you leave even a single fury on them that will not become useless for a turn? Bronzeback, reptile hound, scarab pack, and Cyclops savage all have threshold 7, one fury and average dice means they all frenzy. I can check other factions too if you would like. Edit; glacier, sea, and mountain kings, mulg, rok, gorax, blightbringer, harrier, shreder, stinger, battle boar, bullsnapper, gun boar, razor boar, and the splatter boar all have a 6 or 7 threshold. I should reword my post, I'm agreeing with you. Technically you'd have to be THR 9, which I'd never seen.
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steck
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by steck on May 7, 2017 23:26:11 GMT
I'm personally of the opinion that the fury mechanic and animus tend to be over valued when you take into account lists having to be built around one or two animi (rush and fury being to obvious examples), and it's more evident when a lot of warlocks have a lower fury stat. That said I don't think, for the most part, it's an insurmountable difference in power and I think privateer press and the more vocal player base have spoken and power up isn't changing, fury mechanics aren't changing, and we'll have to live with it.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 7, 2017 23:59:11 GMT
I'm personally of the opinion that the fury mechanic and animus tend to be over valued when you take into account lists having to be built around one or two animi (rush and fury being to obvious examples), and it's more evident when a lot of warlocks have a lower fury stat. That said I don't think, for the most part, it's an insurmountable difference in power and I think privateer press and the more vocal player base have spoken and power up isn't changing, fury mechanics aren't changing, and we'll have to live with it. Nah, I think beasts should run for free. Warmachine used to have a limit to the amount of jacks it could take because allocation meant you couldn't run all of them. Beasts can have the same problem for low fury casters.
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Post by Tekanan on May 8, 2017 11:22:55 GMT
Haha seems like my post triggered lots of people.
Relax guys! Everyone's opinions have some truth in it.
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Post by elladan52 on May 8, 2017 11:30:22 GMT
Bronzeback, reptile hound, scarab pack, and Cyclops savage all have threshold 7, one fury and average dice means they all frenzy. I can check other factions too if you would like. Edit; glacier, sea, and mountain kings, mulg, rok, gorax, blightbringer, harrier, shreder, stinger, battle boar, bullsnapper, gun boar, razor boar, and the splatter boar all have a 6 or 7 threshold. I should reword my post, I'm agreeing with you. Technically you'd have to be THR 9, which I'd never seen. Wait, what? Have you just never seen Legion on the table? Or most of Skorne? Or the majority of trolls? Or half of circle beasts that have a threshold value? Have you really never seen threshold 9+?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 8, 2017 13:01:01 GMT
Power up is fine, stop moaning. Thank goodness PP are rightfully dismissing people who say it is a problem.
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Post by elladan52 on May 8, 2017 13:11:20 GMT
I think power up is the single best core rules change from mk2 to mk3 and should continue to exist as is.
The only thing I would add is allow warbeasts to run for free. Warjacks essentially get this, and it would be nice for beast heavy builds.
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steck
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 51
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Post by steck on May 8, 2017 14:02:14 GMT
I think power up is the single best core rules change from mk2 to mk3 and should continue to exist as is. The only thing I would add is allow warbeasts to run for free. Warjacks essentially get this, and it would be nice for beast heavy builds. But thats the thing, warjacks dont essentially run for free, they can run, charge, boost/buy an attack all without any help at all from their caster. And sure fury works differently but just being able to run on first turn for free doesn't really change not having the fury to run that many beasts. It just changes the threshold checks from first turn running to 2nd/3rd turn engagements when you already have your beasts dug in and can afford even less for them to just do nothing a turn. IMHO a better rule would just be let each beast dissipate one fury a turn and I also think giving hordes players the option to choose one animus to use when that beast is dead as an extension of the spirit bond rules wouldnt be to bad and would make hordes players less reliant on keeping a melee beatstick alive to use their animus for the rest of the army. I also dont see how powerup is much of a problem. It does allow for more spam, but wasnt that PP's intention with the rule, to see more warjacks on the table.
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SeBM
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by SeBM on May 8, 2017 14:07:17 GMT
Yeah, unless you allow beasts to run for free only on turn one, it's not even close to being comparable. Also with the costs of beasts and the support abailable, most lists can manage to run all the beasts on turn one.
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Post by GumbaFish on May 8, 2017 14:13:45 GMT
I seriously don't get why would hanybody want to change power up at all. It just works fine the way it is now, beasts have nearly unlimited fury, heck, they are just a bit overcosted. I'm triggered lol. You do realize that on average, there is not a single beast that if you leave even a single fury on them that will not become useless for a turn? Please read the rules before making assumptions. Wolds don't frenzy so there are 5 beasts in Circle alone which contradict that statement.
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Post by cygnarstronk on May 8, 2017 14:27:25 GMT
Jeez the triggering is real. When I say that beasts have unlimited fury I consider that they can fully boost/do attacks and spend all their stacks in times of need and then risk the frenzy. But still, this game is about trading so often enough that beast will be killed before it can take said frenzy check. You also get the fury back trumping most assassination attempts if you kill one beast with fury on.
I dunno, I really don't see why power up should be made worse, warbeasts should be a bit cheaper that's all.
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