cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
|
Post by cassus on May 3, 2017 14:07:47 GMT
So I'm trying to build a decent Winds of Death list and a solid Rasheth Gunline.
Rasheth -Ardus Sentinel -Titan Cannoneer -Titan Cannoneer -Bronzeback Titan Extoller Soulward Extoller Soulward - free with theme force Venator Slingers Max Venator Reivers Max -Venator Officer+Standard
Basic run down The ardus sentinel is there to threaten assassination or to just wreak warbeasts/living infantry from range. Poison on a 3' aoe is so good.
Cannoneers+Soulward, 2 AOE 4, Pow 15, eyeless sight, magical guns do serious work. There is a lot of circle players in my local meta and this is so key for removing their mankins, gallows groves, and of their models with prowl.
Bronzeback hangs back to be a serious melee threat against anyone who comes to engage my Cannoneers in melee. Without beast handlers or access to run it only has a 9' threat but its mainly here to scare my opponents and keep them at range.
Venator slingers only use really is for Rasheth to channel through. Other than that I'm struggling to really find a use for them. Even agaisnt constructs with the additional die they struggle to do much.
Venator Reivers are decent ranged infantry but I am not thrilled with the points investment. Sill pow 12 vs large bases + CRA is nothing to sneeze at especcialy with a mini feat that lets them threat 22".
What would be some good improvements for this list? My main worry is while is has some powerful guns it wont put out enough shots to kill my opponents army fast enough.
|
|
granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
|
Post by granor on May 3, 2017 14:17:19 GMT
Dakars are out in what a week?
|
|
cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
|
Post by cassus on May 3, 2017 14:23:14 GMT
Supposedly, but is it worth taking him with just one unite of reivers?
|
|
|
Post by dessert hydra on May 3, 2017 14:33:35 GMT
Great minds! Theme: Winds of Death 0 / 0 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Dominar Rasheth - WB: +28 - Titan Cannoneer - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Titan Cannoneer - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Titan Gladiator - PC: 15 - Basilisk Drake - PC: 8 - Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 - Cyclops Shaman - PC: 8 Extoller Soulward - PC: 3 Mortitheurge Willbreaker - PC: 4 Mortitheurge Willbreaker - PC: 4 Paingiver Beast Handlers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7 Venator Slingers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 THEME: Winds of Death I like the BB in your list the counter charge is a tasty threat extender to the unwary opponent... Have you got the sentinal in for terrain problems? I'd prefer the shaman potentially just as nasty... say that flaming annoying Junior gets within 22' (rush followed by snipe) hiding behind storm wall.. well hopefully its going to die!! and then you've got points for a Drake. Which is an excellent infantry clearance as the meta shifts.. under feat it will murder heavy infantry. I'd be tempted to take puffy pants in your list rather than the second extoller an extra POC plus potential free upkeep is worth more IMHO. Anyway I'm going to give my list a go tomorrow and report back
|
|
didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
|
Post by didder on May 3, 2017 14:44:28 GMT
I'd say one major issue, and this is the main issue our theme has, is that there's nothing to receive a charge from the enemy. In WoD, your only options are Brutes, Sentries, and maybe Rhinodons(?). In your list, I'd switch out the bronzeback for a pair of Brutes. Rasheth polishes their pillowfists and low mat a fair bit, as well as accentuating their resiliency. Also, with the move from killing things at range, the Cannoneers can actually get into positions to use their capable melee prowess (especially under Rasheth), so, you might not need a killy melee heavy when you have them, though out of theme they can't be in a relevant spot to charge in.
If you go with Sentries, then it's pretty much locking you out of utilizing the theme benefit of swift hunter. You won't have the points to include much more than a shaman/raider pair. They're a good pair of ranged beasts though. If you want to drop one cannoneer for a Shaman, then it'd let you free up some room too.
When I've been playing around with Winds of Death, I've come to the opinion that optimally, you start with max slingers, max Reivers + UA, Dakar, and 1 piece of artillery. This gets you to two free solos. For the free solos Marketh is usually the best bargain, and since a soulward is pretty much required I go with him, though if you're blessed with extra points go with a second Dakar or a willbreaker. Double Cannoneer and double brute is a good battle group, but Sentinels, Sentries, Raiders, and Shamans can all be worked in there in various combinations. Don't go with out two shield beasts, though. That's the main rule.
Lastly, there's another big issue with Winds of Death, the Dakar. He's got a weapon master gun, veteran leader to the only unit type our theme allows, and the theme simply isn't going to come into its own if you don't use him. The Reivers don't need him so much, so you can do two units of Reivers and not need him (but they are terrible against stealthed units), but the Slingers get quite good with the Dakar's help. Also, his boosts to artillery, the extra move and the reroll, are worth including a reiver cannon or catapult. Here I'd go with the catapult since with Rasheth and Dakar it can hit a heavy for a ton of damage.
|
|
cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
|
Post by cassus on May 3, 2017 14:50:13 GMT
Dessert Hydra, I have the sentinal in there to threaten HVT living targets aka Warcastors, juniors, warbeats. A Pow 13 weapon master gun vs living targets does work even if they are only taking the blast damage from it. Arcing fire makes it harder to block LOS and can easily surprise people who think they are safe. Pathfinder on it is really nice but it isnt the reason Im taking it. Also the scather template is nice area denial vs single wound infantry.
I dont take the shaman cause I dont really see Rasheth needing it, he has insane threat range on his spells since he can arc them through his infantry. Your right that the cyclopes gun is good but the cyclops itself is not nearly as durable in a range duel as the sentinel. Kinda the same argument I have against taking the drake, to fragile if my opponent has any kind of ranged presence. I would be more tempted to try and find the points for Chiron if I really wanted to get a spray in the list.
By puffy pants Im assuming you mean Marketh, really I don't think rasheth needs him. With 8 furry he can cast all the spells he really wants to.
|
|
granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
|
Post by granor on May 3, 2017 15:18:49 GMT
Supposedly, but is it worth taking him with just one unite of reivers? His command leadship thing increases the rat of the reavers and the slingers.
|
|
|
Post by dessert hydra on May 3, 2017 15:25:42 GMT
The thinking behind Marketh is the potential 3 POC scather/cloud wall exert board control with your sentinal that increases another 25% at least on the scather side.
I'll make one more pitch on the shaman/drake/krea combo in that against circle sprays and ghost shot ignore everything they hold dear. I agree you'll never be crafting talisman on the shaman but you'll be using snipe, spamming aura. They can all get work done under feat benefiting from a potential +6 swing (feat, blood, enrage).
I've personally not got the venator riever units + ua so my list is really maxing out the beast swift hunter bonus with a wall for fatty to rest against.
|
|
granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
|
Post by granor on May 3, 2017 16:00:50 GMT
When I've been playing around with Winds of Death, I've come to the opinion that optimally, you start with max slingers, max Reivers + UA, Dakar, and 1 piece of artillery. This gets you to two free solos. max slingers, max Reivers + UA, and 2 Dakars gets you the same 2 free solos or artillery pieces for 1 less point.
|
|
cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
|
Post by cassus on May 3, 2017 18:43:13 GMT
I'll make one more pitch on the shaman/drake/krea combo in that against circle sprays and ghost shot ignore everything they hold dear. I agree you'll never be crafting talisman on the shaman but you'll be using snipe, spamming aura. Correct me if I'm wrong but ghost shot won't ignore stealth so it still cant shoot models with prowl because if they have concealment it becomes stealth.
|
|
demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
|
Post by demonic on May 4, 2017 0:00:55 GMT
x.x; lets all just admit that Winds of Death is more like Winds of Daft. The one thing skorne sucks at doing is killing things at range... the theme we get detriments our ability to fight at close range and supports... what? our artillery? Doesn't really do much else than what we already could do with the units it restricts x.x
|
|
didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
|
Post by didder on May 4, 2017 13:14:47 GMT
x.x; lets all just admit that Winds of Death is more like Winds of Daft. The one thing skorne sucks at doing is killing things at range... the theme we get detriments our ability to fight at close range and supports... what? our artillery? Doesn't really do much else than what we already could do with the units it restricts x.x I agree that the theme seems needlessly restrictive. I do believe that we have a lot of great shooting potential, really great shooting potential, but it's locked behind the bottleneck of the Extoller Soulward. Our ranged armies will never have more than 2 models that can deal with Stealth, menoth's hymns, and Cloudwalls. No reliable success to be had there.
Our list of ranged support from casters has gotten better. It used to be Black Spot and Mage Sight. The end. Now we at least have 2 Morghoul's to add to it.
|
|
|
Post by sentinel on May 5, 2017 9:22:03 GMT
I really think adding Siege animatrax to theme is a step in a right direction. They are fast (trample 11, shoot 12, reposition away), hit in melee like a heavy warjack (4 atacks ps 18, free charge) and have 35 boxes at standart 10/19 heavy stat line. In theme, when each of them gives you 4-5 points discount, I'll take them - they should return their points back easily.
|
|
cassus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 156
|
Post by cassus on May 5, 2017 10:31:33 GMT
I currently dont own the derp turtle but so far I am liking the changes from the CID, more Hp, but I'm gonna wait and see what rules get released for it officially before I buy one.
|
|
granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
|
Post by granor on May 5, 2017 13:33:00 GMT
Our ranged armies will never have more than 2 models that can deal with Stealth, menoth's hymns, and Cloudwalls. No reliable success to be had there. Should we run the flayer cannon then? At least you get a few shots with one soulward.
|
|