gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 24, 2018 13:01:51 GMT
The goal really should be to get the Mammoth, and all Gargantua, to be on the same footing as most of the colossals. This is especially true for the Mammoth, as he bears the most resemblance to them: slow, meaty, good melee output but too slow to get there, and big guns.
However, its ranged output is weak By comparison to those colossals. It's too slow to have meaningful melee output. Lastly, it's pretty expensive for how "able to take it in the face" that it is.
A "melee only" gargantuan is probably not viable as a concept. Their base size is too large, too unwieldy, too easily blocked for them to serve this function. Gargantua all have "melee as a backup" thanks to their massive size, but it probably won't work as their primary means of providing meaningful effect on the battlefield.
So I'm inclined to address to have it function as an artillery piece first, resembling the Conquest. Given the sheer size of the cannons on the model, this doesn't seem unreasonable from a fluff perspective. Compared to the Conquest right now, it has significantly worse use in an anti infantry role, worse survivability, and worse threat range. It's also worth mentioning that I've literally never seen Conquest in a list, so even if we are chasing that paradigm, the Mammoth would need to do it better to be considered a success.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
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Post by gordo on Sept 23, 2018 20:29:27 GMT
Actually, what if they went the Mountain King route and gave it Rush? It would remove the Gladiator point tax of making it work. I'd be ok with that. When I see the Mountain King, I see a single beast that doesn't need a Krea, Agonizer, or Pain Givers to do its job. If they gave it Rush, it would truly be independent.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 23, 2018 20:06:40 GMT
Actually, what if they went the Mountain King route and gave it Rush? It would remove the Gladiator point tax of making it work.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 21, 2018 12:47:51 GMT
There's a lot of speculation that it will see CiD. What are we all expecting/hoping to see?
I would like to see Spd 5 (to help it get over walls) and some kind of unique-ish animus or Aura. It seems like the "ultra-Titan", so something that works well in a Titan herd, like "Titans in this models command range gain Aggressive" or something. Failing that, Dual Attack I think would make sense too.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 20, 2018 19:53:51 GMT
I'm honestly more hopeful for changes to our beasts. I would worry about how "not good" our AGs are, but since they are free... Immortals seem to do pretty well as long as you can keep them fed with souls, unless you need to crack armor. They could probably make it easier to determine who collects our souls. Like the UAs automatically get priority unless full or something, after which it is by normal proximity, just to make game play easier.
So all we have left is beasts and casters to address, apart from the new models we are getting, which I believe is like... 2 at this point? Mordikaar needs work and possibly Makeda3 (though it's debatable whether she will be included).
So given all that and especially the crazy upgrades Circle got, I could see our stable getting some tuning. The Titans and Aradus should probably get cheaper, Reptile Hounds are awful, and the Cyclops Raider could should probably have Reload or something. Mammoth obviously needs help getting over walls and probably better means of contributing since he's so difficult to ever get into melee.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 20, 2018 13:17:37 GMT
I always felt that Zaal1 should have a special rule that allows him to take Ancestral Guardians in lists other Exalted at FA1. Pretty much think all the casters that have some kind of "elite cadre" or similar rule should get something like this.
Alternatively, they could make Ancestral Guardians available in other themes. This would break probably nothing as they are pretty much garbage in anything but Exalted anyway, but it would give Zaals some better play outside Exalted.
Can the Supreme Guardian spawn Kovaas?
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gordo
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Tharn CID
Sept 19, 2018 16:53:18 GMT
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Post by gordo on Sept 19, 2018 16:53:18 GMT
... Fyanna never got nerfed or changed in any way and yet look what happened. She's no longer the big scary meta monster. She's just "good" Is this serious or just some next-level trolling? Fyanna's feat got a massive nerf, and her signature beast (scarsfells) took a big nerf. Basically she got the Karchev treatment. Fyanna didn't get nerfed. They nerfed Oracles of Annihilation instead. Because reasons.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 19, 2018 13:37:53 GMT
MrHaystacks proposed it. I don't see AGs or any models for that matter changing type. That is unprecedented for CID. Random though: I think a huge issue with the CID will be that a lot of non-Skorne players don't know the rules for Skorne models or haven't seen much of the faction on the table. I've seen some very false assumptions in the past and those are probably grounded in Skorne not being a popular faction, especially in the US. While there was a lot of drama over the past CIDs with accusations of certain playerbases lobbying for or against certain factions (and I have no idea whether that was true or false and neither do I want to know), I think for us the bigger issue will be misinformation. So if that is true, what do we do? I mean aside from providing honest, playtested feedback with as high a quality as we can manage. We either have to approach the T&L section with zen-like calmness or ignore it alltogether. What I think we should not do is engage in turtle nerf discussions. The nerf will come or it won't. There's no need for us to get bogged down like the Legion players did with the hellmouth. The "discussions" (=flame wars) around that model took so much attention away from testing the other models. I'm genuinely hoping that they don't even include the Derple in the CiD. It's not part of the Exalted theme, and it's so tilting for so many players that it can't possibly be evaluated fairly. What I can say is, if you look at the WTC results, Skorne got trounced, so while it may warp the entire faction, it doesn't seem to be enough to get us to win... I'm actually fine with it seeing a slight nerf, assuming the rest of the faction gets a buff, but I just don't want to waste CiD time on it or even let the masses have a say. Watching recent CiDs I've lost faith in the community's ability to get things done or even be rational.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 19, 2018 13:30:25 GMT
No Idea where the WTC fits into this. But Cool story bro. Carry on. I think the insinuation here is that you talking about players trying to manipulate CiD unfairly is somehow meant to distract from Anamag's high win rate. I'm not sure why you would want to do that, nor what it has to do with Circle's CiD, or how it would even succeed at what he's saying? I don't want to even try at conjecture as to his purpose here.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
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Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Sept 18, 2018 18:47:49 GMT
Gang or Flank(Immortal) for the AGs. Also since they are called Guardians, I could see them getting Shield Guard. Defensive Strike doesn't really defend other people that well, nor does it ever really seem to come up since they so rarely in the front
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 18, 2018 14:05:04 GMT
Really, we need to nail down whether or not this is supposed to be a beast or infantry theme. If the former, it needs some kind of fury management, improved Nephilim light war beasts, and better theme benefits (Unyielding being largely only good on our character heavies, which probably shouldn't be the only beasts ever played in this theme). If the latter, it needs free points for infantry... And that is probably it. Obviously our infantry can hit very hard so you would only need beasts for staying power, which Unyielding can more or less help with. These aren't what it would take to make the lists GOOD, they are just what it would take to make lists functional.
Personally, I think the list should be infantry based and the Nephilim (possibly non character restricted) should all gain either "Gang" or even more interesting, the Bokur's special "Client" rule. Then the usual model revisions. I also really think that the Soldier should get Precision Strike as a targetable animus. It would really help fix Legion's anemic damage cracking in our beasts lists and it would further emphasize the "surgical strike" aspect of the army, but it would still have good counter-play since we don't really have great access to Grievous Wounds.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 12, 2018 20:02:36 GMT
How about: non flying / serpentine legion warbeasts gain carapace? That benefit is way too strong, PP would never give that out to any faction.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Sept 12, 2018 19:31:23 GMT
[nit-picking] blood creation is probably the least useful rule We've ever had. I've yet to have it come up in any game ever. My caster or beast mistress is never going to be in front of my beast. IF I play ravagores and they could possibly frenzy I can change their facing to prevent LOS. The rule would also never be opened up to affect all faction models. Dark shroud I don't think is thematic and just would never happen. A universal +2 damage to all of our beasts would cause more outrage and tears than Anamag did. No matter how cute it is or how we want to hit real damage numbers I cannot imagine it ever happening. Lastly the support solos in that are just all over the place. No infantry unit for the incubii. No archers for Craelix. What even makes Craelix applicable to the theme? He's not that blighted, he's just a Succubus species. I get that he's good but there's little reason for his inclusion otherwise. Ice witches also seem shoe horned just to get the puppet master bonus rather than a real fluff reason. [/nit-picking] Why can't we just fix CotD and Ravens? Snarky answer: because we respect the OP I think a variation on Blood Creation that helps us guide our frenzies could be good. And it certainly scratches the fluff itch the designers are looking for. Benefits as strong as Dark Shroud have been given before, but our faction doesn't start with "cry" and end in "x" so we couldn't get that. It was the best I could come up with without making a new rule that could be given to beasts that felt "corrupting presence". If I had to go with "new rule", I would probably do some kind of "ending your activation in melee reach of gives corrosion". It would kind of emphasize the use of lessers as you could spread more Blight around.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Tharn CID
Sept 12, 2018 16:10:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by gordo on Sept 12, 2018 16:10:43 GMT
Yeah I've watched the bias in CiD, it's pretty silly. I watched those same folks use it to (at least attempt to) sabotage the Legion one too.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Sept 12, 2018 16:06:06 GMT
So as far as theme benefits... Assuming that the designers will want to operate off of fluff and aesthetics (like giving Nephilim Unyielding?), what thematic element best represents Legion, specifically their Dragonspawn?
Well, they are basically created flesh golems made from mutating Dragon blood. So...
Mutation Blood Blight Draconic
What special rules would best represent one or more of these?
Possible ideas: Bring back the Blood Creation rule from mk2. Maybe even extend it to include friendly faction models. The latter would do huge amounts to help beast gunlines, which often struggle to manage all their fury. It would also help manage lesser war beasts.
Since there is nothing more incarnate of the Blight than the spawn themselves, I would say something to represent the Blight's influence. Just being near it corrupts so... Given that...
Dark Shroud wouldn't be bad aesthetically and it would greatly help return the Cannon to our Glass Cannon aspect.
Entropic Force? Could greatly help our Nephilim Warriors be relevant.
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