Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685 
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Post by Cyel on Nov 21, 2020 9:19:50 GMT
I've just seen Death Archon and rules on PP website. What a disgusting, cynical piece of power-creep for cash  I hope players will vote with their wallets against contaminating the game like this. |
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Post by michael on Nov 21, 2020 13:30:51 GMT
And remember kids, just one single post contains all your Lormahordes recommended daily allowances: salt, righteous outrage, hyperbole, contempt, and more!
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Nov 21, 2020 14:20:11 GMT
Hey! I actually love what is happening with WM&H at the moment thanks to Brawlmachine, I run third successful online league in my country, the only way of playing a wargame for people who don't have anyone at home to play with!
But this sad cash-grab power-creep piece really curbed my enthusiasm.
Why don't you comment on my constructive/positive comments in the Brawlmachine thread, huh? Instead of only stalking me when I want to talk about something I'm not happy with ? Better to paint in your head this one-dimensional picture of me as an always unhappy whiner to make world easier for you to grasp, eh?
As for the sad Death Archon I really wish we could have some Historic/Legacy mode, without this absurd power-creep of Archons, Riot-Quest models or Infernals that make old-style armies with conventional tools obsolete.
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Post by Charistoph on Nov 21, 2020 19:38:59 GMT
With all that, at least we won't be seeing another Archon fighting alongside the Death Archon.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Nov 21, 2020 19:42:02 GMT
Hey! I actually love what is happening with WM&H at the moment thanks to Brawlmachine, I run third successful online league in my country, the only way of playing a wargame for people who don't have anyone at home to play with! But this sad cash-grab power-creep piece really curbed my enthusiasm. Why don't you comment on my constructive/positive comments in the Brawlmachine thread, huh? Instead of only stalking me when I want to talk about something I'm not happy with ? Better to paint in your head this one-dimensional picture of me as an always unhappy whiner to make world easier for you to grasp, eh? As for the sad Death Archon I really wish we could have some Historic/Legacy mode, without this absurd power-creep of Archons, Riot-Quest models or Infernals that make old-style armies with conventional tools obsolete. Interesting that the Death Archon's the breaking point for you. It looks very, very strong, but I'm not sure if it's that far ahead of the curve compared to the others. It does look like it could be absolutely disgusting in SBF, since it collects corpses and doesn't compete with the soul collection, and compared to the Void its mechanic doesn't clash with Gaspy4. I don't like Archons either, both thematically and in terms of power creep. On the other hand power creep is an almost inevitable reality in this industry (and others), you need new pieces to be powerful enough to justify being bought. I'm curious how the sales on something like Flubbin compare to Gaspy or the Archons. Put another way, power creep always has been and always will be an issue, it's just that recently the offending models are more visually distinct and cohesive (CID, Infernals, RQ, Archons) so it's easier to point a finger and get angry. |
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Nov 21, 2020 21:04:38 GMT
TBH I remember coming ~6 years ago from WH40K and instantly falling in love with WM&H - a game where you don't need to constantly buy new models to do well, but rather you need to play them well. I may remember the second half of mk2/first half of mk3 wrong (we all know how subjective human memory is) but I recall most new things being cool because they offered new, unique ways of playing the game, not because they were straight more powerful than older ones of the same point cost. Maybe it was rose-tinted glasses of my honeymoon period with WM&H though  But I definitely see power creep being more in-your-face we-made-it-like-that-because-we-know-you'll-buy-it-anyway now than just a random OP model slipping thorugh accidentaly in the past. I'm comparing it to solos I alrady own for PoM and Cryx - Darrag Wrathe (9pts), Tartarus (7pts), Gravus (8pts), Vilmon (6 pts). I don't compare it to other Archons, as I haven't bought any - they are the epitome of this disgusting powercreep that I'm not happy with and I have no intention of supporting or encouraging this process. |
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Post by Gamingdevil on Nov 23, 2020 7:23:15 GMT
Tartarus is 6 points.
I think the Death Archon is strong, but will be really curbed by its Animosity rule, and I'm saddened that he can't collect friendly corpses (it says FF) outside Mercenaries/Minions, who arguably really don't need the help at this point.
But before we start getting outraged, we don't yet know which themes he will be allowed in. Sure, he will be allowed in many factions, but the themes where he will be taken in doubles will stand to gain the most. And it's unlikely that he'll be in all the Mercenary themes. I'm not even certain if he will get taken in SBF even if you can, as there aren't any friendly corpses to be had, and the Voids do a lot of work there.
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Post by Charistoph on Nov 23, 2020 14:26:10 GMT
I think the Death Archon is strong, but will be really curbed by its Animosity rule, and I'm saddened that he can't collect friendly corpses (it says FF) outside Mercenaries/Minions, who arguably really don't need the help at this point. But before we start getting outraged, we don't yet know which themes he will be allowed in. Sure, he will be allowed in many factions, but the themes where he will be taken in doubles will stand to gain the most. And it's unlikely that he'll be in all the Mercenary themes. I'm not even certain if he will get taken in SBF even if you can, as there aren't any friendly corpses to be had, and the Voids do a lot of work there. Those Themes will be the breaker as some Themes make everything in them Friendly Faction. |
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Post by anoddman on Nov 23, 2020 22:28:48 GMT
I think the Death Archon is strong, but will be really curbed by its Animosity rule, and I'm saddened that he can't collect friendly corpses (it says FF) outside Mercenaries/Minions, who arguably really don't need the help at this point. But before we start getting outraged, we don't yet know which themes he will be allowed in. Sure, he will be allowed in many factions, but the themes where he will be taken in doubles will stand to gain the most. And it's unlikely that he'll be in all the Mercenary themes. I'm not even certain if he will get taken in SBF even if you can, as there aren't any friendly corpses to be had, and the Voids do a lot of work there. Those Themes will be the breaker as some Themes make everything in them Friendly Faction. The thing is, the themes that make everything friendly faction also really want to run other archons. Curious to see where he'll be played as I currently don't see myself making room for him anywhere. |
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Post by Charistoph on Nov 23, 2020 22:49:02 GMT
True, in Irregulars, it's not like we'd be worried about Holy Zealots refreshing themselves just to have the DA start all over again, but in Resistance? And I think Irregulars, Theater, and/or Bedfellows would be the only Mercenary Themes we'll see the DA in.
Any army that you'll being having Alexia1 as a key player won't care for having a Death Archon in the same space (though, maybe on the other side?), and the DA won't care for Alexia3 in the same place.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Nov 24, 2020 13:39:00 GMT
On other forums people were pretty underwhelmed actually. The is always the same polar reaction of "too strong" "too weak" while the truth is somewhere in between for most minis. The early MkIII boogie-men never came back actually. I for my am not too intrigued by him, just because I fear there won't be interesting fluff explanation for him in the long run. But we'll see...
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Nov 24, 2020 14:33:33 GMT
I guess my reaction was more "that's one relatively cheap model overloaded with rules too much, please stop" rather than "it's so much stronger than everything".
I'd rather see more models with just basic, "icon" skills in the game and less absurd memorisation bloat instead of another slew of solos with backs of the card filled to the brim with tiny font.
Have more decisive, chess-like maneuver, less gotchas and minutiae. Chess does perfectly well with no special rules and manages interesting, complex board states somehow.
But that's just me.
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Post by anoddman on Nov 24, 2020 17:01:00 GMT
I guess my reaction was more "that's one relatively cheap model overloaded with rules too much, please stop" rather than "it's so much stronger than everything". I'd rather see more models with just basic, "icon" skills in the game and less absurd memorisation bloat instead of another slew of solos with backs of the card filled to the brim with tiny font. Have more decisive, chess-like maneuver, less gotchas and minutiae. Chess does perfectly well with no special rules and manages interesting, complex board states somehow. But that's just me. I will agree with you there. I could do without cards being stuffed with rules quite so much, especially when those rules have a paragraph of text. |
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Post by marxlives on Dec 2, 2020 21:16:52 GMT
I guess my reaction was more "that's one relatively cheap model overloaded with rules too much, please stop" rather than "it's so much stronger than everything". I'd rather see more models with just basic, "icon" skills in the game and less absurd memorisation bloat instead of another slew of solos with backs of the card filled to the brim with tiny font. Have more decisive, chess-like maneuver, less gotchas and minutiae. Chess does perfectly well with no special rules and manages interesting, complex board states somehow. But that's just me. Like Huge base models, Archons are set pieces. I can see them being awesome in certain formats. And maybe this is something the community can dev. We have Steamroller as the standard take whatever is theme and out. Champions as a caster cycle. Brawlmachine as a limited skirmish format. Maybe we can have/make another format that caters to playing with huge beautiful set pieces. Why go back to the OG infantry machine for the win, when with different formats we can all have them games we want to play with a pool of options to make it happen? |
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on May 9, 2021 23:50:37 GMT
Living in a US state that has maintained limitations on in-person gatherings since March 2020, I've avoided playing in the apparent tide of Archon inclusion in competitive armies. Though I miss in-person competitive AND casual play, I think I'm OK with missing out on Archon-aggedon.
I guess it remains to be seen how long they'll warp the meta?
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I hope players will vote with their wallets against contaminating the game like this.
But I definitely see power creep being more in-your-face we-made-it-like-that-because-we-know-you'll-buy-it-anyway now than just a random OP model slipping thorugh accidentaly in the past.
