jakiwis
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by jakiwis on Nov 17, 2020 23:38:02 GMT
Hello,
New Skorne player here, I used to play Searforge in MK1 and The Hour of Reckoning tier in MK2 but I have just recently returned by getting a bunch of Skorne models.
I checked out LOS university and was able to get a great deal on models and built me a list consisting of the following:
[Xekaar 1] Beast Master Xekaar [+31]
- Agonizer [6]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Bronzeback Titan [17]
- Chiron [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Aptimus Marketh [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
The only extra models I have is a Titan Cannooneer and a Willbreaker which I haven't really tried. I like this as it hits hard, pretty fun as Marketh does get to help, but I tend to get mobbed. Are there any other good additions for me to get to continue with Xekaar? I think the Immortal Vessel seems great, but how about other units, beasts or solos? Thank you very much.
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bacon
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134 
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Post by bacon on Nov 18, 2020 5:42:22 GMT
Xekaar is an interesting caster who has several key problems that you will need to overcome when building for him. His low Fury stat combined with having a lot of offensive spells means you will need a way of increasing his spell accuracy. His poor defensive stats means he needs a way to channel so he does not need to be near the Frontline. The immortal vessel fixes both of these and is a good choice, just try not to throw them away to early. Cyclops brutes also are decent with him since between mortality, enrage, and possible extra damage buffs from other models it can hit respectably hard for a light warbeast and during xekaar's feat turn they can be really obnoxious to remove if your oppinent doesn't have a way to deal with him via spells (at base def13+feat+set defense he will be at def 15 against a charging model while your opponent is suffering -3mat. Add in that he can force himself to make your oppinent reroll successful hits against him and he can really get in the way and protect much more important pieces from charges).
His mostlty offensive spell list means you can take minions and do all right with them. Notably some minions you'd want are the swamp bellows crew (a 5'cloud can do a lot to protect your army on the way in, and their def is kind of ridiculously high which makes them extremely hard to hit on his feat turn. At 2 pts for a unit you generally need a pretty good reason to not take these) and farrow valkryies (excellent shield guards with great synergy with pain giver task masters, which you should also take if you plan on running any combat minons, but should ignore if you aren't).
If you are having trouble being swarmed by single wound infantry you might also want some pain giver master tormentors who have a 2' reach melee attack with thresjer and anatomical precision which massacres most single wound infantry.
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jakiwis
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by jakiwis on Nov 20, 2020 3:40:04 GMT
Thank you very much! Would going with the Disciples of Agony tier work for me? I have not yet bought the Vessels yet or should I still keep being all Skorne?
I do tend to find having a bit too much Kreas and not too much punch too. I feel at times I have too many models supporting what little offensive weapons I have and it gets Xekaar killed too.
I am curious about the Basilisk Drake and the Archidon as well.
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bacon
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by bacon on Nov 22, 2020 4:46:22 GMT
DoA is a weird theme for him. The sacraficial pawn from the theme benefit can protect him from ranged attacks which are a common vector for your opponent to assassinate or set up an assassination on your caster, but you would need to buy a bunch of non skorne models to really take advantage of it. Since immortal vessels are not in the theme your primary source of channeling would be a blind walker from minions and your only caster independent source of accuracy boosting for xeekar's spells is telemetry from the Hermit of Hengehold. Overall I pesonally would rate Disciples as the worst theme for xekaar, but several other casters really like it and it is a pretty strong theme. If you ever intend to build beast heavy lists for skorne it will probably be your theme.
The question on continuing the game themeless or not is up to your preference really. In my opinion its probably best to play non theme lists for a bit so you can figure out what you like in the faction before buying into a theme. Also it helps if you have opponents who are willing to play themeless while you explore you faction and relearn the game. Eventually you should move into themes and since Disciples is our beast them it is almost certainly one you will build for anyways.
Support bloat is a real problem in skorne. Realistically you probably should not have more than 2 kreas, with 1 often being enough, and either a min unit or max unit of beast handlers, or at most 2 min units but only if you have a ton of beasts and/or siege animantaraxes. Basilisk drakes can help with this by turning kreas into absolute monsters with the kreas flank ability. Notably xekaar's character beast, Chiron, is a heavy basilisk Drake and supports other basilisks who end their activations in Chiron's command range.
Archidons are really good warbeasts but not something you can base a list on. Their hit and run style lets you get some kills without riskng the archidon and serpentine prevents knockdown which is a common way of bypassing high defense models. Extended control range is really strong on a lot of the game's scenarios which can put beast zones far away from where you would want to put xekaar. But they are extremely pillow fisted and you either need to weaken a target (preferably at range)before sending it in or load up a lot of damage buffs/ armor debuffs to make it hit hard enough to kill a valuable target
It should be mentioned that currently Privateer Press has announced that they are looking at some of the battle box casters and xekaar is on the list so some or all of what I just said might change.
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Post by Charistoph on Nov 23, 2020 3:57:40 GMT
One other side note, while the Blind Walker is the only access to channeling Xekaar normally has, there is a way to fudge it a little by virtue of the Cyclops Shaman, who can cast any other Warbeast's Animus in Battlegroup. A handy ability to have if you want to double your pleasure without doubling up on the models. Battlebox casters have the unfortunate virtue of being the training wheels for the faction. One probably shouldn't expect them to hold their value beyond the early game. Even with the Journeyman League (think escalation league), Privateer Press have the first swap out at 45 points unless you're playing the long version. I wouldn't expect that to change TOO much after the next update, but I could be very wrong. I will side with Bacon on this, though, only pursue Disciples if you want to build a lot of Warbeasts or play with a lot of Minions. Take a look at The Exalted and Masters of War to see if either of those tickle your fancy. Xekaar can still work in Brawlmachine's 25 point games with them and be effective (though, obviously not shining). With your first Theme in mind from there, build to Brawlmachine and try them out to see if they work for you (or use WarTable to sim them out), which can help you decide on which Theme and Warlock to move to next. |
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Post by michael on Nov 23, 2020 19:32:00 GMT
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Post by Charistoph on Nov 24, 2020 0:03:56 GMT
A lot more than many expected, I think. I'm rather surprised, in a good way. It looks like he's recovered from the beating that Gunnbjorn put on him way back when. |
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jakiwis
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by jakiwis on Nov 30, 2020 0:40:15 GMT
A lot more than many expected, I think. I'm rather surprised, in a good way. It looks like he's recovered from the beating that Gunnbjorn put on him way back when. Wow, That is a lot and will have to practice that. Thank you very much. |
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jakiwis
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by jakiwis on Nov 30, 2020 0:45:17 GMT
DoA is a weird theme for him. The sacraficial pawn from the theme benefit can protect him from ranged attacks which are a common vector for your opponent to assassinate or set up an assassination on your caster, but you would need to buy a bunch of non skorne models to really take advantage of it. Since immortal vessels are not in the theme your primary source of channeling would be a blind walker from minions and your only caster independent source of accuracy boosting for xeekar's spells is telemetry from the Hermit of Hengehold. Overall I pesonally would rate Disciples as the worst theme for xekaar, but several other casters really like it and it is a pretty strong theme. If you ever intend to build beast heavy lists for skorne it will probably be your theme. The question on continuing the game themeless or not is up to your preference really. In my opinion its probably best to play non theme lists for a bit so you can figure out what you like in the faction before buying into a theme. Also it helps if you have opponents who are willing to play themeless while you explore you faction and relearn the game. Eventually you should move into themes and since Disciples is our beast them it is almost certainly one you will build for anyways. Support bloat is a real problem in skorne. Realistically you probably should not have more than 2 kreas, with 1 often being enough, and either a min unit or max unit of beast handlers, or at most 2 min units but only if you have a ton of beasts and/or siege animantaraxes. Basilisk drakes can help with this by turning kreas into absolute monsters with the kreas flank ability. Notably xekaar's character beast, Chiron, is a heavy basilisk Drake and supports other basilisks who end their activations in Chiron's command range. Archidons are really good warbeasts but not something you can base a list on. Their hit and run style lets you get some kills without riskng the archidon and serpentine prevents knockdown which is a common way of bypassing high defense models. Extended control range is really strong on a lot of the game's scenarios which can put beast zones far away from where you would want to put xekaar. But they are extremely pillow fisted and you either need to weaken a target (preferably at range)before sending it in or load up a lot of damage buffs/ armor debuffs to make it hit hard enough to kill a valuable target It should be mentioned that currently Privateer Press has announced that they are looking at some of the battle box casters and xekaar is on the list so some or all of what I just said might change. REPLY: Thank you very much. A big draw back for me with going into DOA is the glut of non Skorne Models I need to get. If I wanted non skorne models, I would rather not go skorne. I was thinking Archidon or Drakes because of laziness and funds really. I buy 1 or 2 additional models and it changes my list already. Imagine by just buying 1 Archidon, 1 Drake, and 1 Immortal Vessel, I just move my beast handlers to a min unit, I can fit all these in if I remove the Agonizer and a Krea. If I buy 2 Archidons, it i will fit as well. That already gives me more list options to play. That just leaves the Willbreaker and the Cannoneer not being in play. |
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jakiwis
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by jakiwis on Nov 30, 2020 0:54:05 GMT
I have friends who can lend me 2 Archidons, 1 Drake (which he keeps trying to sell to me) and an Immortal Vessel proxy (from a soulward). Playing around with the list builder, removing the Agonizer and one of the Krea it gives me this list. conflictchamber.com/?c9201bg26U6U4xm-hG5G6A6Nn35USkorne [Xekaar 1] Beast Master Xekaar [+31] - Archidon [10] - Archidon [10] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Bronzeback Titan [17] - Chiron [19] - Titan Gladiator [15] - Titan Sentry [15] - Aptimus Marketh [5] Immortal Vessel [3] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] I still need to play this, but another option is this: conflictchamber.com/?c9201bg26U4v4xm-hG5G6A6Nn35VSkorne [Xekaar 1] Beast Master Xekaar [+31] - Archidon [10] - Basilisk Drake [8] - Basilisk Krea [7] - Bronzeback Titan [17] - Chiron [19] - Titan Gladiator [15] - Titan Sentry [15] - Aptimus Marketh [5] Immortal Vessel [3] Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7] I haven't tried both, but what do you think about these two lists? I am a bit unsure with the Agonizer not being there but I think I am good losing another Krea. If this feels good I can package the Krea, Cannoneer, Willbreaker and Soulwards into a package to get them other models or to get the Archidon or Drake or anything else to help Xekaar. |
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