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Post by zwergenkrieger on Nov 16, 2020 20:18:53 GMT
Hi all,
after playing Gators almost exclusively for the last couple years I sold them. Yes, got bored. Or couldn´t get an idea for different builds that I liked the look / concept of AND wanted to paint / play.
Well, that also means that I´m back to Piggies now. But here the problem starts once more: What to play?
I played Arkadius A LOT – and I love him. I also played Carver A LOT – and love him too.
But what about the other casters?
Helga1: I like her, but couldn´t make her work some years ago. Is there anything new to her kit? I bought Ledfoot to enhance her threat range.
Helga2: Bought her, yet to assemble. She looks ace – what does she do? What does she need as support?
Azazello: seems to be the new shiny toy. Do I have to get him?
What about the new Thornfall / Trolls Theme Force? Carver with a Troll´s Gargantuan seems to be ace.
So just start to talk about Thornfall models please!  |
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Nov 16, 2020 20:38:59 GMT
The good news is I think all of the casters have legs they are pretty much the universally agreed upon best part of the subfaction. Arkadius is probably the best and in Azahuls thread you can find some insight into him and some of the other casters.
The bad new is outside of the beats, rosh & brine and valkyries, none of the farrow units and solos are good, which leads to most pig players playing in WWFF, because the relevant farrow models are all there and then some.
Azazello in the new theme force should be pretty legit. Trollkin Champions with a krielstone in tow really love every aspect of his kit. Add in boomy3, a champ hero and double archons and you have a really solid brick list that also hits hard.
the otehr good news is that farrows will get their own dynamic update at some point in the future, though given how badly they failed to make thornfall enticing so far i would not hold my breath.
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Post by Azahul on Nov 16, 2020 21:50:33 GMT
Helga1 has benefited a lot from some of the new solos that have released. Flugwug, Void Archons, and River Raiders getting cheaper (1 point/model instead of 4 points/3 models) have all been boons for her, as have Dhunian Archons for keeping the occasional critical solo alive long enough to do work. I still wouldn't necessarily bring her to a tournament, but I have had fun every time I've played her since Flugwug released and she's definitely strong enough to win games, she just doesn't necessarily plug a match-up niche on her own.
Helga2 is in a similar position. I personally play her for her personal output, usually casting Primed on her Turn 1 and running her with a minimal battlegroup. I don't find her flagship abilities like Wild Ride to be all that impactful, so I typically only bring two War Hogs to benefit from it and call it a day. Instead her lists are usually somewhat similar to Helga1, in that I will usually bring two each of the Void and Dhunian Archons, Mire and a Wrastler for an extra heavy and access to the Rage Animus (Primal really hurts a Warlock who wants to be cheating trades with a Sprint Feat) and clouds, and some Gremlin Swarms for blocking off landing zones. Valkyries for some Shield Guards to help delivery and Rorsh and Brine so that I have at least one heavy that can keep up with Helga's own threat ranges complete the set. And while she's strong and I've solo'd her at tournaments a bit, she looks into playing similar match-ups as Arkadius and doesn't do them as well so I wouldn't personally bring her in a competitive pair. I've got some essays floating around this forum delving into my list construction and thoughts on Helga2 that I could dig up if you want.
I'm not quite as heavily aboard the hype train of Azazello as some, mostly because I have a deeply ingrained disdain for anyone whose main job is to just swing big stat numbers around, but I do agree that he's solid. Once VoD comes out and he actually runs a different sort of list to every other Farrow Warlock I can see myself actually including him in a two list pair, but at the moment he's running the same double Dhunian, double Void, multiple Valkyrie units build that every non-Arkadius Farrow Warlock runs (and Arkadius brings the Voids as often as not). His personal mobility and output keep him from feeling like he's just a Feat on legs, and I would say that the key to learning him is figuring out how to get him into melee to kill something safely nearly every turn without getting him killed in return. In a vacuum I probably put him on about the same level as Helga1 and 2, in that he's quite strong and definitely viable competitively, but his synergy with Champions means that he has the potential to build a different kind of list that would actually cover different match-ups to Arkadius which is why he's actually going to make list pairs.
I don't actually hold much hope of Farrow infantry ever becoming appealing, because frankly we don't have any Warlocks that want single wound infantry save Midas. So best case scenario is that Midas becomes competitively viable, and that would be nice to see again. My personal wish would be to have Carver get a total rework so that he runs infantry rather than failing to be a competitive battlegroup Warlock in a faction that also includes Arkadius, especially since he's meant to be the leader of the Farrow as a people. I'm not sure PP has actually diagnosed that the issue starts with our Warlocks yet, however. If Azazello was meant to give us another infantry Warlock, they probably shouldn't have had his Feat include an armour buff and implicitly encourage multi wound infantry instead.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Nov 17, 2020 10:14:37 GMT
Yeah it was infuriating to see how we got two new warlocks this yeah, both very obviously /intended/ to fix pigs but they just... don't. Heck Hungie even said "Archons with Azazello is really scary guys" in a spoiler and apparently nobody in the dev team thought "hm, maybe him being good with multiple archons is a major problem if he is supposed to fix pigs."
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Nov 17, 2020 16:37:10 GMT
Yeah it was infuriating to see how we got two new warlocks this yeah, both very obviously /intended/ to fix pigs but they just... don't. Heck Hungie even said "Archons with Azazello is really scary guys" in a spoiler and apparently nobody in the dev team thought "hm, maybe him being good with multiple archons is a major problem if he is supposed to fix pigs." The problem with buffs in general is that buff work better the better the unit is you put that buffs on. It´s not just Archons. |
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Post by Azahul on Nov 17, 2020 20:05:59 GMT
Nobody laughed at me saying that I didn't find Wild Ride impactful  That was a funny pun guys. |
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Nov 17, 2020 21:34:33 GMT
Yeah it was infuriating to see how we got two new warlocks this yeah, both very obviously /intended/ to fix pigs but they just... don't. Heck Hungie even said "Archons with Azazello is really scary guys" in a spoiler and apparently nobody in the dev team thought "hm, maybe him being good with multiple archons is a major problem if he is supposed to fix pigs." The problem with buffs in general is that buff work better the better the unit is you put that buffs on. It´s not just Archons. True but there are definetly ways to skew a caster/lock towards wanting SWI over beefy troops or solos. None of those ways were part of Azazellos kit however |
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Post by Azahul on Nov 18, 2020 12:39:45 GMT
Aye, I kept advocating for Azazello to pick up a Farrow-based coin mechanic (see Damiano and Lord Rockbottom) because a) he's a dashing outlaw robbing the rich and a money mechanic would be cool and on theme, and b) because Money Shot [Farrow] would make him an unambigiously Brigand-orientated Warlock. But alas, we got a Warlock most notable for skewing armour, and that's never going to want to be near Farrow infantry.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Nov 21, 2020 20:11:53 GMT
Aye, I kept advocating for Azazello to pick up a Farrow-based coin mechanic (see Damiano and Lord Rockbottom) because a) he's a dashing outlaw robbing the rich and a money mechanic would be cool and on theme, and b) because Money Shot [Farrow] would make him an unambigiously Brigand-orientated Warlock. But alas, we got a Warlock most notable for skewing armour, and that's never going to want to be near Farrow infantry. I agree that a coin mechanic would be both thematically fitting and a great way to breathe life into Farrow units. That said, I have tried Azazello a couple of times in Thornfall Allliance lists and it was far from disastrous.
Of course, I have mainly played against my wife, so not a high-end competitive setting by any means (covid-19 recommendations ect.). I also managed to get Azazello brutally slaughtered on feat turn my first two games - because I left a Brigand in place to get thrown at him. I now wonder if I want to bring a Troll Bouncer for the Animus in the future...
I found that Azazello can be quite annoying with his 15" range on Distraction and a gun that gives other models extra threat range. It makes it harder for the opponent to predict whether Azazello will go all in or hang back and be annoying. The feat also saves infantry from blast damage, lightning arcs and similar low-damage infantry killers.
I ran a Meat Thresher, double Razorback Crews, Valkyries, Slaughterhousers and max Brigands + Warlord list (plus all the Solos - Targ, Scythe, Wastelander, Wolf with No Name and double Dhunian Archons). It has performed better than expected. The Meat Thresher with Phantasm (and the ability to threaten 14") has caused a lot of planning issues. Slaughterhousers with 12" melee threat has been pretty good (the shot from Azazello usually does a few points of damage - allowing me the trigger Finisher). Even if a couple of them die on the approach, they do a lot of damage under feat.
The Brigands, on the other hand, have not done a lot of damage but been annoyingly hard to get rid of (Henchmen + Dig In makes them hard to hit).
Of course, I have yet to try other variations of the list (and in a more competitive setting) but if you want to play Thronfall Alliance for a change, I think Azazello is my favourite Warlock for it.
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Post by tyrantnewman on Feb 23, 2022 14:59:40 GMT
Nobody laughed at me saying that I didn't find Wild Ride impactful That was a funny pun guys. I'm sorry I hadn't joined the forum back in November, I'd have laughed at that. Wild Ride is the only thing that makes the Meat Thresher interesting in my opinion, which is a shame for a model that size. At this point I own nothing but Farrow, which is making list building a bit of a challenge, especially when my local group has a pretty vocal distaste for Theme Forces. On the other hand I have a feeling that I'd find it really annoying owning Trollblood Beasts that I could only use with Carver, Azazello, and Helga while not having them for Arkadius, Sturm, or Midas. |
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That was a funny pun guys.
