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Post by gribble on Sept 27, 2020 10:34:30 GMT
Been out of the game for a while, and never really played much in the way of trolls when I was in.
Northkin really appeal, so I'm looking to put together a small force (enough for 3 casters at 75 points).
I'm mainly in it for the lore and funsies, and not looking to win tourneys here, but at the same time I don't want to turn up to a tourney and get stomped. So I'd like things to be good/competitive, but not at the expense of fun or lore (theme helps a lot with that already I guess).
In terms of casters, I'm set on Kolgrima, Borka 2 and Madrak 3.
Here are the models I already have: Latest 2 player starter box (Ragnor, warbeasts and Fennblades), Borka 2, Rök, Skaldi and Fennblade Kithar (I realise he isn't in theme).
I really want the bears (at least one unit) and a unit of champs.
In terms of the rest, I'm having a hard time figuring out what is best.
For remaining beasts, I'm thinking Mauler, Brawler and 2x Ice... but wondering if it's worth also picking up a Pyre (for Borka 2, and also if I end up with Fire Eaters), or either of the other Northkin lights (Winter/Basher). As I understand it, neither of those two lights are really great, and I'm not interested in picking up any other lights (unless someone says one of them is "must have" for a caster).
Would it be worth including 1-2 Bombers as well? Or can I safely skip them with these casters?
Also windering if it's worth splashing on a Glacier King?
Along the same lines, is it worth picking up a Hooch Hauler? I'm EU based, but I understand it's a lot easier to get them over here now anyway?
For units, between the bears and champs, I should be ok for heavy infantry. Plus, I'm not too keen on the Buffalo Riders (again, unless prevaling thought is that they are must haves).
For light infantry, there seems to be three main options: Fire Eaters, Raiders (+Pyg Lookouts?), and Kriel Warriors. What is the accepted preference in terms of 1-2 options that will work well with all three casters?
For support, obviously Stone + Northkin Leader. How about Runebearer and Fellcaller? While I hear they're good, the older models are a bit of a turn off TBH...
And Valka and Northkin Shaman? Are they worth picking up? I understand one of the SotN weaknesses is incorp and magic... do these guys plug the gap enough? If so, 1 or 2?
Also are Sorcerors worth including (mainly in the champs I guess)?
Finally - in the themeforce box, there is mention of a theme force guide book. Can anyone with the box comment on what that is? Is it just the same stuff covered in the NQP article?
Most of the box doesn't really appeal, but if the guide book is good then I might consider it (which would also answer a few questions above)...
I think that's all for now. I know it's long, so thanks for your patience!
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Sept 27, 2020 14:10:36 GMT
I would wait another week until we have a solid view of what is potentially coming out of CID. A pyre seems legit, the Mauler not as much anymore. Hooch Hauler is still something you do not want right out of the gate.
Raiders are the better light infantry, either one full unit or two mins (pick up the pyg barrel rider to break the box up, don't buy two boxes)
Runebearer almost always a must have, fellcaller not as much, but I really like him as combat support solo. (he's maligned as a support bloat model, but a spraying weaponmaster solo isn't bad to have).
I wouldn't give the Force book so much as a second thought.
Valka is a great solo, too many rules to not be useful for SOMETHING. I've never even painted my Shaman, and not needed him. Sorcerors are a bit of mixed bag. I like one on my Champs, but they are also the first thing I cut if I need points.
Bombers are a premier Troll beast, so you'll want one eventually if not right now. Brawlers are probably the best base melee heavy we have.
Kolgrima is the most powerful warlock you listed there, although not my personal favourite.
Edit: Bumbles is a Riot Quest model coming out this winter, plan on getting Bumbles.
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Post by mandra on Sept 27, 2020 14:29:11 GMT
I suggest you to wait till the end of the CID, another month or so. However a safe bet and evergreen units to have IMO are: -bomber x1 -mauler x1 -Earthborn dire troll x1 -brawler(after cid)x1 -pyre x1 -fellcaller -champions (at least 1unit) -Skaldi (less important after CID) -bear handler(at least 1unit) -fire eaters (at least 1unit) -stone+elders -runebearer IS a Staple for the majority of the casters. -dhunian arcon (maybe not mandatory but really good with some infantry)
Solo you'll need when released: -Bumbles -Boomhowler3 Band of Heroes theme share most units with SoTN so other units you still want are: -fennblades+UA (at least 1 unit) -warders (wait after CID but this dudes are going to be played 100%) Warlock useful in SoTN and BoH with previous units IMO are: -Borka2 -Kolgrima -Madrak1 -Madrak3(after CID) -Ragnor(after CID) Other useful warlock in SoTN and other Themes: -Grissel1 -Gunnbjorn1 (ranged focused) -Grim1 -Grim2(maybe after CID could see play) -Doom3(Beasts focused, used in SoTN) -Doom2(Beasts focused) AVOID: kriel warriors!useless! Hooch Hauler not worth its points. A model for painters.
Look second hand stuff since warmahordes have a good market for buyers and you'll save a lot of money. Facebook groups and ebay are friends.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Sept 27, 2020 14:39:44 GMT
The Hooch Hauler isn't a very competitive piece, it mainly works for a gimmicky quadruple massive base Grim1 list. It's a great looking piece for sure, but you won't notice its absence if you're not willing to pay the 160$ for it.
[ Casters ] Madrak3 is going through CID now so it remains to be seen how he'll function, but he looks to be a decent pick. Very pretty model, though!
Kolgrima and Borka2 are basically the best casters in the faction so you can't go wrong there.
[ Beasts ] Pyre is absolutely worth, it's nigh-mandatory for Borka2 and now that it's been buffed it's universally useful. Ice Troll.... isn't great. Brawler's decent, but for a start I would pick a second generic heavy box over it. Winter Troll is mediocre, Basher is a decent workhorse model. Some people swear by it, I'm not crazy about it.
[ Units ] Almost every Northkin army will run some combination of double bears, double Northkin Fire Eaters, and double champions, so if you buy those you're pretty much good to go on every single stock Northkin force. CA for Champions is close to mandatory.
Raiders are ok, not worth the price tag IMO, Lookouts are worth picking up if you know they're going into your army list, Tuffalos only really work for specific lists/casters, far from mandatory, and as much as I love them Kriel Warriors blow.
[ Support / Solos ] Stone plus northkin CA (preferably both) is mandatory, especially now with the price drop. Runebearer is effectively mandatory. Pick it up.
Fell Caller sees a lot of use and for good reason, it won't go into every army but it should be on your list, most likely.
Valka is not very good, Sorceror isn't worth picking up either. Not a big fan of the Shaman.
Dhunian Archon is super worth picking up, or Boomhowler2. Can't run both, so pick your poison.
Seconding what DBM said about Bumbles, it looks to be extremely strong for the price.
Northkin Theme box is widely regarded as a ripoff. You're better off buying the individual parts, and the guide included is, honestly, probably not worth even looking at. Not to be too rude but ask anyone on the forum what they think about Hungerford and the team's perception on what is and isn't balanced and you'll understand why I don't put much stock in it.
I STRONGLY recommend you download Wartable and test the game on there. I've had a blast with it and it allows you to dojo any list, any list at all, that you want, without the hassle of proxying shit, or paying for expensive models you don't know if you'll ever actually use.
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Post by gribble on Sept 28, 2020 13:39:04 GMT
Thanks for the advice everyone. It was really helpful, if a little contradictory!
Good point about waiting a week to see how things shake out in CID.
I have Bumbles (and Boomhowler 3) coming, and would likely include him even if he was just "ok" for theme reasons. Am I right in assuming that means I won't have space for the Dhunian Archon (especially, as Bumbles is a minion too?) and Valka / Fellcaller (as other free solo options, given I will have Skaldi, Runebearer and Northkin Elder?)
I found a few more models I already own - seems I have a unit of Champs, a heavy kit and (min) stone without attachment, plus Borka1.
Is it worth upgrading the stones to a full unit with any of these casters (I heard min is good enough for fury-strapped casters)?
It seems like the following is a good shopping list for now:
Madrak 3 (I mainly like him for looks, so he's in regardless of CID outcome)
Kolgrimma
Runebearer
One more heavy kit (I'll magnetise them both)
One Brawler (I want at least one Northkin beast)
Pyre Troll
Northkin Elder
2x Bear Handlers
2x Fire Eaters
Anything I missed?
For later I might consider a second unit of Champs, Raiders and Lookouts.
And I can do without Dhunian Archon (assuming Bumbles takes her spot), Fell Caller, Shaman and Sorcerers, Glacier King, Hooch Hauler or any of the Northkin lights?
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Sept 28, 2020 14:20:38 GMT
You can make do fine with the min stone, I think. Having the option to expand to max is good, but not crucial.
Bumbles is actually a Trollblood model, not minions, so he doesn't take up your slot. Neither does Boomhowler3 in SOTN, because he has the 'champion' tag. Dhunian is still a highly recommended pick, especially if you'll play with a lot of warrior models.
I'd say assuming you buy everything you've mentioned in the first block, the order of value for the rest would be
dhunian >> fell caller = second champions unit > glacier king > basher > lookouts >>> raiders > hooch hauler >>> winter troll / ice troll
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Post by gribble on Sept 28, 2020 18:56:54 GMT
Thanks mate, good to know on all fronts.
Looks like the week 3 CID hasn't changed much. Impalers seem good, but I already have one from the starter set and not sure they're good enough to warrant picking up a second right now.
Although it goes against some of the advice I received, in the end I've gone for:
Madrak 3
Kolgrimma
Runebearer
Dire Troll kit (second one)
Brawler
Pyre
Basher
Dhunian Archon
Northkin Elder
Bears x2
Raiders (plus 2x barrel rider for flexibility as mentioned)
Mainly due to what was in stock/available.
I'll grab 2x Fire Eaters and a second unit of Champs, and consider a Fell Caller for the next round of purchases, once these guys are done.
Seem reasonable?
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Sept 29, 2020 6:54:55 GMT
Thanks mate, good to know on all fronts. Looks like the week 3 CID hasn't changed much. Impalers seem good, but I already have one from the starter set and not sure they're good enough to warrant picking up a second right now. Although it goes against some of the advice I received, in the end I've gone for: Madrak 3 Kolgrimma Runebearer Dire Troll kit (second one) Brawler Pyre Basher Dhunian Archon Northkin Elder Bears x2 Raiders (plus 2x barrel rider for flexibility as mentioned) Mainly due to what was in stock/available. I'll grab 2x Fire Eaters and a second unit of Champs, and consider a Fell Caller for the next round of purchases, once these guys are done. Seem reasonable? With what you've got right now, you could run something like this: Trollbloods [Theme] Storm of the North [Madrak 3] Madrak, Great Chieftain [+29] - Dire Troll Bomber [17] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Pyre Troll [8] - Troll Axer [9] - Troll Basher [7] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Dhunian Archon [0(6)] Troll whelps x2 [2] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] A bit heavy on the warbeasts for Madrak3, I feel, and it's 4 points short, but it should be a lot more flexible on scenario than TB usually are, with two stone auras. Trollbloods [Theme] Storm of the North [Borka 2] Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Pyre Troll [8] - Rök [19] - Troll Axer [9] - Troll Basher [7] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Dhunian Archon [0(6)] Troll Whelps [2] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6] - Northkin Elder [0(3)] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] I don't have any experience running Borka2 myself, but this feels very close to a classic, conservative list for him, maybe aside from the Raiders. I recommend you try these lists out on Wartable - even if you don't have time for full games, you can do a couple of tests playing against yourself as a "bot", just seeing what it's like to unpack your army - it's something that can trip you up very easily starting out. |
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Post by gribble on Sept 29, 2020 12:37:27 GMT
Apart from Whelps, I will have enough for those lists.  Are you saying I should pick some up? Also, why the raiders over Champs in both lists? |
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Post by mandra on Sept 29, 2020 13:40:17 GMT
This is more or less a classic borka2
[Theme] Storm of the North
[Borka 2] Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws [+27]
- Bomber[17]
- Pyre Troll [8]
- Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)]
Fellcaller [0]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Northkin Elder [3]
Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10]
Northkin Fire Eaters[7]
Northkin Fire Eaters[7]
Champions (max) [16]
-Skaldi[0]
Champions (max) [16]
There are a mix of units you can play with, like valka, long raiders, raiders, the classic combo mauler/EBDT or rok.
However the core was double bears double fire eaters and champions.
the real mandatory units are bears and for me champions at least 1 unit.
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Sept 29, 2020 13:55:45 GMT
Apart from Whelps, I will have enough for those lists. Are you saying I should pick some up? Also, why the raiders over Champs in both lists? I figured you want to use the barrel riders as whelp proxies. And to be honest, it slipped my mind that you already own a unit of champs. I haven't tested this myself so I wouldn't know, but I feel that thanks to Battle Lust Raiders might be a better pick than Champions. They still won't be able to chew through the heaviest armor (ARM 20+ heavies and BEs), but they'll be able to put in work with their slightly improved threat ranges. Again, on paper. It IS just a 1' difference, plus AD, but they lose out on 1 DEF, 2 ARM, no KD immunity and no Sanguine Bond. The Champions can spike damage way, WAY harder thanks to having two significantly harder hitting attacks each, which stack far better with the Pyre's new animus. They also benefit more from the Dhunian Archon. Kinda writing this as I'm thinking, I think Mandra is right and the champions are basically mandatory. The bears are 100% mandatory, their damage output and threat range is fantastic, and again they take buffs very well. |
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Post by gribble on Sept 29, 2020 16:36:59 GMT
I figured you want to use the barrel riders as whelp proxies. Ah right. I didn't think of that, but it's a good idea for point fillers (though they are pygs, not whelps, right?) I figure the core of my "main" list will probably look something like this at 75 points... maybe replacing the Brawler with a Bomber depending on how CID points end up: Borka, Vengeance of the Rimeshaws - Rök - Dire Troll Brawler - Pyre Troll - Trollkin Runebearer Dhunian Archon Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) - Northkin Elder Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears Champions (max) -Skaldi[0] Northkin Raiders (max) |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Sept 29, 2020 17:40:55 GMT
Aren't Barrel Riders medium bases? I actually don't like the model, so don't own any, but if they stand in for a Raider unit leader, they would have to be medium
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Sept 29, 2020 18:43:48 GMT
Aren't Barrel Riders medium bases? I actually don't like the model, so don't own any, but if they stand in for a Raider unit leader, they would have to be medium yea, you're right. |
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