|
Post by badnappy on Sept 17, 2020 0:32:20 GMT
Can someone in the CID make a link to the proposed changes for those of us to lazy to make an account yet interested to know what's going on, pretty please.
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Sept 17, 2020 8:14:27 GMT
Legacy model rules
Ragnor Skysplitter, the Runemaster Gained +1 FURY Gained the Chosen Ground Spell Gained Weight of Stone on his melee weapon Gained Field Marshal [Weight of Stone], providing it to the melee weapons of beasts in his battlegroup
Madrak, Great Chieftain (Madrak 3) Feat changed so that friendly models do not suffer free strikes when they move as a result of it. Gained +1 ARM. Gained Field Marshal [Shield Guard] Lost the spells Fortune and Soothing Song Gained the spells Battle Lust and Defender's Ward
Pyre Troll Flaming Fists Animi changed to become COST 2, RNG 6. Can be cast on any friendly Faction model. Spew Fire becomes ROF 2.
Slag Troll Acidic Touch Animi changed to become COST 2, RNG 6. Can be cast on any friendly Faction model
Troll Axer Point cost decreased to 9
Troll Impaler Gained +1 RAT Reduced to PC 9
Swamp Troll Lost 2 ARM Gained Impervious Flesh
Storm Troll Lightning Fists Animi changed to become COST 2, RNG 6. Can be cast on any friendly Faction model Gained +1 RAT Lost Crit Disruption on Claws Gained Cortex Damage on Claws
Night Troll Lost Crit Paralysis on Claws Gained Paralysis on Claws
Mulg PC reduced to 20.
Dire Troll Brawler Flails gain Beatback.
Trollkin Champions Gains Relentless Charge Skaldi now gives Practiced Maneuvers instead
Trollkin Champion Hero Gains +1 ARM
Trollkin Warders Loses Wall of Steel Gains Carapace Gains Roadblock
Krielstone Point cost 5/7
Dhunian Knot Gained the Prayer Circle ability (Prayer Circle: While all three Dhunian Knot models in this unit are in formation, other friendly Faction models whose base is within the triangular area between them cannot be knocked down or made stationary, and gain boosted magic attack rolls.)
Trollkin Runeshapers Gain Battle Wizard Janissa swaps leadership for Vet leader
Whelps Become FA 15 Reduced to PC 1 Alternate Food Source now heals d3+1
Horgle Ironstrike (Horgle 1) Swap Molten Metal for Ember Spark Ember Spark (Cost 2, RNG 10, POW 10, Offensive) Gain an additional die on this spell’s attack roll if the target is not affected by Continuous Effect: Fire. Ember Spark causes fire damage. Models hit suffer the Fire continuous effect.
Power of Dhunia Loses the Serenity benefit Gains the following benefit: When a living warbeast is forced to use its animus while in its controller’s control range, reduce the cost of the animus by 1.
|
|
shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
|
Post by shmeep on Sept 17, 2020 9:15:49 GMT
Some interesting changes. We'll have to wait and see how Madrak3 plays out, but he still doesn't look massively exciting. With the new spells he looks to be pretty solid. I don't really like change to Whelps. Not like a lot of people run 10 of them, but now if you do they're going to cost you two more points. It does give them the same niche Gobber Chef used to have. Change to Ragnor is welcome, to be honest he never struck me as amazing. If his beasts can actually land a hit on a high def target suddenly their damage output skyrockets.
Paralysis on the Night Troll isn't really a big deal, they don't threaten far enough to be credible assassination tools, and most people won't bring them on the off chance they can kill lights. Cool on paper, though.
Brawler change is pretty cool, under the right circumstances it can allow it to threaten even further, which is its main selling point anyway. Warders change is very thematic, but I'm still unsure if they're going to see that much use. Champions change makes me feel Skaldi isn't quite as mandatory for them anymore, so maybe double champions will see more play?
The only one who possibly doesn't enjoy the change to light troll animi is Borka2, but then instead of paying 1 fury himself he can have the Pyre pay 2 to apply it directly to him, so it doesn't strike me as an actual issue. Horgle1 might actually see use as an animus bot now, which I like.
EDIT: didn't notice that the Pyre got ROF 2. That's a pretty big deal. No clue why they didn't give the same to Storm and Slag troll now.
It might actually make sense to take a Bomber and two Pyres with Horgle2, if you ever run him. And it makes them a good bit better at infantry clearing, and just, y'know, in general.
Don't see anyone touching the Impaler even with the changes. The Bomber is just that much better. Axer point drop saves 1 point for all beast bricks, not much to say there.
Curious how this'll play out. Most of these changes are pretty minor compared to the insanity that is the new models, which is to be expected.
|
|
|
Post by deathbymelancholy on Sept 17, 2020 18:01:52 GMT
Man, I LOVE the change to whelps. Have two points? whelps. have one point? Whelp. Have four points but no good solo option, Skinner and a whelp. Madrak3 looks great, maybe not S-tier, but certainly a viable and playable warlock, which he wasn't before. I think Ragnor's new kit is really good, just need to figure out the leverage I'll certainly look at an Impaler now, and I was already slotting in a Swamp Troll so bonus there. Pyre is change is money, we all know that. Mulg and stone are cheaper, I'll take both those without complaint Ember spark is a neat spell for a junior that generally have hit issues Knot getting prayer circle is nifty Warders are REALLY neat to me. mobile cover granting models is pretty slick. Everybody keeps saying cost is too high for full unit but 3Valks was working for me, I'll just take three warders and keep my minion unit slot for....whatever.
|
|
|
Post by mandra on Sept 17, 2020 18:53:48 GMT
Man, I LOVE the change to whelps. Have two points? whelps. have one point? Whelp. Have four points but no good solo option, Skinner and a whelp. Madrak3 looks great, maybe not S-tier, but certainly a viable and playable warlock, which he wasn't before. I think Ragnor's new kit is really good, just need to figure out the leverage I'll certainly look at an Impaler now, and I was already slotting in a Swamp Troll so bonus there. Pyre is change is money, we all know that. Mulg and stone are cheaper, I'll take both those without complaint Ember spark is a neat spell for a junior that generally have hit issues Knot getting prayer circle is nifty Warders are REALLY neat to me. mobile cover granting models is pretty slick. Everybody keeps saying cost is too high for full unit but 3Valks was working for me, I'll just take three warders and keep my minion unit slot for....whatever. There's time for some other change right? Madrak3 and impaler could be perfectioned?
|
|
|
Post by deathbymelancholy on Sept 18, 2020 0:58:09 GMT
There's time for some other change right? Madrak3 and impaler could be perfectioned?
Of course not, I'm just seeing a lot of...gloominess, and I don't understand it. There is a lot of good stuff in there week 1 and if it ended right this second Trolls would be in a much better place. There's still the entirety of the CID to go? Well awesome then. I really love my Warmachine community and have missed them horribly through 2020, but man can they ever be some negative mofos. And yes, I know it comes from a place of caring about the game, and we're not the only game that way, but somebody has to be happy once in awhile, or why bother?
|
|
|
Post by Dev Null on Sept 18, 2020 1:13:03 GMT
man can they ever be some negative mofos. And yes, I know it comes from a place of caring about the game, and we're not the only game that way, but somebody has to be happy once in awhile, or why bother? Nothing to add. Just really wanted that quote on the page immediately after "Death By Melancholy"...
(But I agree with you.)
|
|
shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
|
Post by shmeep on Sept 18, 2020 10:07:05 GMT
I took a look at the stats on the Pummeler / Barrage Team again, and unless they improve the Pummeler crew right now the Barrage are just superior in every way. Same weapon, but RAT 6 vs RAT 5 + inaccurate, speed 5 vs speed 2-4, no minimum range on the gun, both MAT5 but P+S11 vs P+S10 and then can actually charge stuff, CMD 7 vs 5, cost appears to be 8? vs 6, both have arcing fire, and instead of getting one unreliable extra AOE after a single inaccurate shot you get three good accuracy AOE shots, spread as you desire. Even if you stack the buffs from two Gunnery Sargeants on them you only get 2x2 RAT4 explosions. That's not worth 12 points investment. Assuming they cost 8 you can grab Brug instead and buff their output to three POW16 shots instead. sadly I am senile so I forgot if Brug buffs explosions, but I think he doesn't. Only drawback is you can't run this combo in VoD.
and another thought: I kind of hope they change the theme to include Horgle1. Rorsh is in the theme, so I mean, why not?
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Sept 19, 2020 13:45:21 GMT
Brug does buff explosions under gunny2 feat, for sure. Not use about normal blast damage tho.
|
|
shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
|
Post by shmeep on Sept 23, 2020 8:29:55 GMT
I haven't read all of the changes yet, but Slag Troll got Peel Back the Layers in week 2, lost Erosion on the claws in exchange. Now it's at 100% power against anything that doesn't have acid immunity. Might be a bit too strong? I'm not sure, it still needs to land a mediocre RAT5 attack to actually get the bonus, and if you boost that eats into the damage output, so probably not.
|
|
bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
|
Post by bundeez on Sept 23, 2020 8:56:02 GMT
Nah, I don't think so.. As you mention he has to boost the gun and probably pay for the charge. That's 1 low pow shot and 3 fully boosted low pow melee. Definitely better than before and might even be playable now but: - Threat super low - still 10 points - still same redundant animus
In a meta where it has to fight premium 8 pts. Archons, who easily can stay out of the 8,5 threat, I think he needs more. Improve the animus and I can see it getting table time.
|
|
shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
|
Post by shmeep on Sept 23, 2020 9:03:16 GMT
Nah, I don't think so.. As you mention he has to boost the gun and probably pay for the charge. That's 1 low pow shot and 3 fully boosted low pow melee. Definitely better than before and might even be playable now but: - Threat super low - still 10 points - still same redundant animus In a meta where it has to fight premium 8 pts. Archons, who easily can stay out of the 8,5 threat, I think he needs more. Improve the animus and I can see it getting table time. redundant how? +2 damage is pretty good, even if it's cost 2 now. only other thing I could think of is that you want it to get Rush, which I think is still only on the Axer for a reason.
|
|
bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
|
Post by bundeez on Sept 23, 2020 9:14:50 GMT
Because of the Pyre troll (also +2str animus). Which is a much better warbeast right now, so 10/10 times you pick a Pyre before a Slag.
You need a reason to pick the Slag as well.
|
|
shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
|
Post by shmeep on Sept 23, 2020 9:32:23 GMT
Because of the Pyre troll (also +2str animus). Which is a much better warbeast right now, so 10/10 times you pick a Pyre before a Slag. You need a reason to pick the Slag as well. I guess. 10 points is a bit on the steep side compared to the Pyre Troll's output at 8 points. The slag's selling point is that it can hit at effectively POW16 (IF it lands a RAT5 shot), but it's still spotty. Don't forget it has to compare to the Axer, Basher, Night and Storm too - and three of those don't have a ranged attack to supplement their melee.
|
|
bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
|
Post by bundeez on Sept 23, 2020 9:46:24 GMT
Yeah exactly.
Melee lights are just a big MEH in this game to be honest, as chillychinaman has pointed out in a threat in General Discussion recently. So many units do a better job that it's impossible to compete with. Ranged lights make much more sense, as boostable guns are really nice to have in an army. Boostable melee attacks on a fury3 warbeast? No thanks.
|
|