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Post by steeltitan on Aug 21, 2020 13:44:43 GMT
I like the idea of BM quite a bit. I haven't tried it but I was wondering what your opinions or ideas are for Khador.
B3 and S1 are banned. OW2 is too because she is on a huge base and last time I read about BM Karchev was on the watch list.
Casters with personal threat are strong so I was thinking who else could be strong contenders? Maybe Vlad3 in WOTOF?
Wolves is possibly not a great pick with Doomies being FA1, although it does have strong choices such as the Void Archons.
But like I said, i havent given it a lot of thought...
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Post by hocestbellum on Aug 21, 2020 16:02:13 GMT
Oh, wow, yeah, this is exactly what I've been looking for! The Steamroller scenarios are pants at low points; this looks great as a little intro game.
My immediate thought is how hard it can be to screen a caster from a Strakhov1 jack-missile when there's far fewer models, but at the same time there's going to be less overrun triggers...
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Post by sand20go on Aug 21, 2020 17:25:51 GMT
What I see BM as is a FANTASTIC way to introduce players to the game _AND_ to get solid practice with the stats on units you you don't (or interactions you are fuzzy on) so you do it faster. I think for vets ALWAYS on the clock (and maybe a compressed one). WHat you are working on is doing it quick - so that come 75 point SR you do it fast.
In the example from the OP - OW2 is a fantastic choice (though I think violates the Huge base restriction - but it is homebrew...homebrew some more) and really getting quick on calling out your ability for that turn, understanding her spells and RNG and understanding positioning and proxying with huge base so you do THAT quick.
Clock is such a critical resource in a lot of games. Getting quicker while not making a mistake is a great skill. Plus knowing your stats by heart also helps with math - understanding which side to deploy on to force favorable situations.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 21, 2020 18:30:30 GMT
I took a glance at BM the other day, but I was a little turned off when I saw that MACBAIN!!!!! was banned. That's just not cricket!
Although I will say that it amuses me that BM banned MB.
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Post by hocestbellum on Aug 21, 2020 19:07:54 GMT
In the latest version they're considering bringing him back, according to the notes. Their issue was that he can make half his force invulnerable in a lot of cases, which is a NPE. But they're testing a sideboard rule and saying that if they can get that to work they might bring him back since people could pack anti-healing.
In a similar vein, though, I'm surprised Kaelyssa isn't on the watch list. Her feat can be one hell of a 'nope!'
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Post by auraco on Aug 22, 2020 20:45:54 GMT
I think wotof is a strong contender here, but not with Vlad3. He runs the juddicator like a king, but you can’t take the juddy in brawlmachine... so still technically khador is Kreoss3. Add to that that fire of Salvation looks pretty good for his points and the list builds itself. Warrior of the old faith Kreoss3 Fire of Salvation Destroyer Full flame brigners Menite archon Vilmon as the req choice
The list has 3 models with righteous vengeance, a couple of ways to get rid of upkeeps, a damage buff, a deff buff, most of the models can navigate terrain, a shield guard, and on top of that, a Chad caster that can do a lot of work by himself, something Vlad3 would struggle to do at this point level because of lack of blood quench targets.
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Post by hocestbellum on Aug 24, 2020 10:49:53 GMT
Pfft, that's not a Khador list; it's a Menoth list with a stolen jack! I'm going to need to get some table time with this format; I'm having a hard time figuring out what would work well. An alpha strike from someone like Strakhov1 would be strong option; assassination is a straight up win and if you could take out an opponents' heaviest hitter they might then struggle to get through Khador armour quickly enough... but will you have the resources for a decisive strike at the lower point level? At the other end of the scale you could probably do some sort of ARM-skew; Shocktroopers and Devastator could give a lot of ARM23, which would be hard to take out but might lack hitting power. Does something like a cloud wall become increasingly powerful when you can probably shield your entire army? S3 feat or Z1, perhaps?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 24, 2020 12:05:55 GMT
I mean, isn't the whole point of this format to not be super competitive? Doesn't it defeat the purpose just a touch if you immediately start building the strongest / skewiest list you can within the format?
Maybe take the chance to pull out some models that you like but that aren't typically a big part of a serious competitive list?
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Aug 24, 2020 13:08:31 GMT
Here is what I came up with:
War Room Army
Khador - mow brawl spec
Theme: Armored Corps 25 / 25 Army 15 / 10 Specialist
<! OVER SPECIALIST POINT LIMIT !>
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Champion - WJ: +27 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)
Man-O-War Strike Tanker - PC: 5 Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 4 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
Man-O-War Demolition Corps - Leader & 4 Grunts: 14 - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich - PC: 0
SPECIALISTS Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 6 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Greylord Adjunct - PC: 4
THEME: Armored Corps ---
Vlad2, pretty typical, the sideboard allows for anti infantry or stealth if needed! Kayazi and adjunct used to be a drakhun, but then stealth ruins your day!
Second list: War Room Army
Khador - vlad wg brawl
Theme: Winter Guard Kommand 25 / 25 Army 15 / 10 Specialist
<! OVER SPECIALIST POINT LIMIT !>
Vladimir Tzepesci, The Dark Prince - WJ: +28 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Destroyer - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
Winter Guard Artillery Kapitan - PC: 3 Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich - PC: 0
Winter Guard Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2 - Winter Guard Rocketeer - PC: 2
SPECIALISTS Berserker - PC: 8 Widget, Tinker Extraordinaire - PC: 3 Greylord Adjunct - PC: 4
THEME: Winter Guard Kommand ---
Not sure about the sideboard! Maybe a weapon crew? Maybe kayazy? Maybe not the jack? And adjunct soley against setath feels bad!
I think Jaws also has a lot of potential! Kayazy again, kossite should perform well (pain to remove!).
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Post by hocestbellum on Aug 24, 2020 14:16:03 GMT
I mean, isn't the whole point of this format to not be super competitive? Doesn't it defeat the purpose just a touch if you immediately start building the strongest / skewiest list you can within the format? Maybe take the chance to pull out some models that you like but that aren't typically a big part of a serious competitive list? Quite right! I've confused this thread with Cyel's one in General Discussion, where he's asked people to help him break it so they can refine the ban list. More in keeping with this thread; Black Dragons! With points so limited, effectively getting two support solo's abilities for free means they're not totally overshadowed by the vanilla IFP. In fact, IFP in general; FA1 means their larger unit size gives them a point of distinction over Doom Reavers. Sorscha2! No, that's not a typo. At least 50-60% of your opponents' forces are going to be beasts or jacks, so there's always going to be prime targets for her feat Butcher1! He can take Ruin, who is excellent, but more than that is the sheer force multiplication of his feat. Similar to Sorscha2, knowing that your opponent has to run quite jack/beast heavy means his damage spiking ability has great value. Kozlov! He's a fave of mine anyway, but now we're talking about playing a battlebox+ game and that always feels like what he's designed for. Decent set of buffs all round. Kossites! Cheap and irritating, and with the lower amounts of models around sparing someone to deal with them might be even trickier
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Post by auraco on Aug 24, 2020 14:16:20 GMT
Pfft, that's not a Khador list; it's a Menoth list with a stolen jack! I'm going to need to get some table time with this format; I'm having a hard time figuring out what would work well. An alpha strike from someone like Strakhov1 would be strong option; assassination is a straight up win and if you could take out an opponents' heaviest hitter they might then struggle to get through Khador armour quickly enough... but will you have the resources for a decisive strike at the lower point level? At the other end of the scale you could probably do some sort of ARM-skew; Shocktroopers and Devastator could give a lot of ARM23, which would be hard to take out but might lack hitting power. Does something like a cloud wall become increasingly powerful when you can probably shield your entire army? S3 feat or Z1, perhaps? I'm not snobish about who I take in my khador army, if they come mostly from the protectorate I'm totally ok with that, it's still the motherland
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Post by auraco on Aug 24, 2020 14:22:01 GMT
I mean, isn't the whole point of this format to not be super competitive? Doesn't it defeat the purpose just a touch if you immediately start building the strongest / skewiest list you can within the format? Maybe take the chance to pull out some models that you like but that aren't typically a big part of a serious competitive list? People are people, some will try to break the format, it's why there is a ban list, of course my first reflex is going to be to try to take the most competitive stuff if I participate in an event. Not sure if it defeats the purpose or it's just false hopes from casual people that people won't try to play the most competitive stuff, but at the same time do casual people trying to play non competitive list care if they lose? I try to play competitive and I don't even care if I lose. The change in point and max FA1 does affect what's competitive compared to a regular game though, in a regular 75 point game there's stuff that doesn't work that might work at this point level, the meta is going to be different for sure.
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ace
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 52
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Post by ace on Aug 24, 2020 14:22:05 GMT
I played Vlad 2 with shocktroopers and two tankers. It felt very strong as the feat affects most of your army instead of a small portion. Same with Hand of Fate on the shocktroopers and wind blast being able to shut down a much larger proportion of enemy shooting. He just scales really well down to this size.
I imagine there are many casters in the game that scale this way as well. Part of what makes brawlmachine fun is how it changes the power level of different casters and models.
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Post by auraco on Aug 24, 2020 15:00:40 GMT
I played Vlad 2 with shocktroopers and two tankers. It felt very strong as the feat affects most of your army instead of a small portion. Same with Hand of Fate on the shocktroopers and wind blast being able to shut down a much larger proportion of enemy shooting. He just scales really well down to this size. I imagine there are many casters in the game that scale this way as well. Part of what makes brawlmachine fun is how it changes the power level of different casters and models. I'm sad I can't take butcher3 at this point level, would have been soo fun, but I can understand why they banned him. Sorscha1 tho I'm not sure, at low point like that, you know at least half the other guy's army can shake off at least, does she really break the format?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 24, 2020 18:19:54 GMT
do casual people trying to play non competitive list care if they lose? There's a difference between losing in a close but fun and casual game, and getting curbstomped so badly that there was never really any chance of winning so nothing that you did mattered. Of course you're going to get crushed if you bring a casual list to a competitive setting, and some people are OK with that. But I think BM is supposed to be a more casual game mode; I think it's fair to bring a casual list to such a format and still expect to be playing a game, not just unpacking your toys down then packing them up again without actually ever having had a chance to do anything with them. Obviously I'm exaggerating for effect. I'm just trying to communicate the point that yes, casual players bringing a casual list to a casual game mode might not enjoy losing badly to a highly competitive list/player. What's more, I feel that BM would be a good game mode for beginners; a bit like a more balanced Journeyman League. I fear that experienced players jumping in with a competitive attitude might not encourage the newer players to keep playing. Maybe we should just let the casual players have this game mode, rather than making everything competitive, is my thought. If that makes any sense? But of course not all metas/gaming groups are the same, I guess everyone has to make their own judgement based on their local gaming scene.
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