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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 29, 2020 9:34:40 GMT
How do people feel about a Kodiak on Malakov? He's affordable, you've got the pathfinder, P+S 18 is acceptable (especially when that's both initials), and you can possibly get a bit more value out of Redline thanks to the chain-attack. I guess you can save yourself some early-turn damage by not casting Redline at the start, while still moving fast enough to staying relevant thanks to Heavy Boiler?
Well, maybe it falls into the "if you have 2 points lying around then upgrade his Marauder" category.
To be honest though I'm not really seeing a good reason to take Malakov with Karchev anyway? Is there some synergy I'm missing?
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Post by steeltitan on Jul 29, 2020 11:23:58 GMT
I like your new list. Just some of my thoughts after reading through the last few comments. Note that I have only played Karchev twice but I've played Jaws many times. It was my go to list for years, with Butcher3.
I'd try out a Destroyer on S0. It's actually quite ok and it's nice not having to overexpose her with a melee jack. Having that said though, I've also tried Beast with her, as a replacement for Rager that I ran for a long time. I liked him a lot. Early game I'd shield guard for S0 or Butcher3 (in your case Karchev) and once both armies are wittled down, you still have an insanely powerful jack to clean up...and Karchev. Also, you can really surprise opponents with his threat range, especially if forget murderous. Still, the Destroyer is ok too but I've found it very matchup dependent. Run for turn, park it in a good spot and spend the game aiming, boosting attack rolls with the free focus and hope to trigger RtW. Eventually, I didn't find it reliable enough with the armies I faced and replaced him.
Right on for sticking with double Devs. It's my go-to for Butcher3 as well. I hardly ever actually attacked with them (you open up and they die) but they take resources to kill and they save you a ton of clock time haha. Just to have said it, don't dismiss the option of running one on Sorscha0 if you want to free up points. They dont need Karchev's help for what they are there to do and they are perfectly fine with the one focus from S0 (run/boost a head butt or a slam attack and just sit in a zone and be annoying). If you want to run two anyway, it basically takes a way to jack-tax from S0.
I think Malakov is cute (tried him too in my Jaws Old Witch 2 list) but eventually also dropped him. I think he should have one more generally applicable spell buff of some kind to be worth taking in more competitive lists. He plays in a very isolated way which I didn't find particularly helpful...
Although I'd love to say otherwise, don't bother with Behemoth. He's too many points in a Jaws list and it ends up costing you too much (number of Jacks). I've had long discussions about this view points but meh...I'd rather take a Destroyer or even two Destroyers in a Jaws list.
I like Yuri, I included him in most of my lists but not at the expensive of a Marksman. He provides a nice benefit to the Windowmakers and it's just really nice to have another flexible (SPD/solo) piece in your army, for triggering RtW.
@soul Samurai: Probably. I haven't played much with Karchev but I just think that points are too tight in Jaws to run them. Also, if you overexpose Karchev and you don't play against a bad opponent, he will die in one round. If not, you got a lucky break, you get to repair but that's not why i would take them. Right now, I'd rather rely on the healing objective (while we still can) for free. If your opponent wants to put some early damage on Karchev, it means that all your actual workhorses actually make it across.
I ran Ruin in my B3 list (duh) but I'd probably not feel comfortable dropping Juggies in a Karchev list. If you don't face huge bases and your feat's gone or it isn't the right time, POW16 is just really sad.
Personally, I dont think I'll want to shelve out 5 points for the power of nope hermit. I'd rather play Karchev carefully and not even give my opponent the chance.
Lastly, a wild card, I run Alexia2 in my B3 list and love it. She's survivable and fast and her thralls help an otherwise bricky, slow-ish list, contest far away elements, score flags AND trigger RtW with weird angle missile thrall warriors. If you opponent gets lucky and kills some Widowmakers early game, you still gain something and late game there's generally opposing models to benefit from. I find she really adds a lot to Jaws' scenario game.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 29, 2020 12:04:39 GMT
How do people feel about a Kodiak on Malakov? He's affordable, you've got the pathfinder, P+S 18 is acceptable (especially when that's both initials), and you can possibly get a bit more value out of Redline thanks to the chain-attack. I guess you can save yourself some early-turn damage by not casting Redline at the start, while still moving fast enough to staying relevant thanks to Heavy Boiler? Well, maybe it falls into the "if you have 2 points lying around then upgrade his Marauder" category. To be honest though I'm not really seeing a good reason to take Malakov with Karchev anyway? Is there some synergy I'm missing? I feel the same way as i feel about kodiaks in jaws in general. Which is: Why would you not just use a devastator which trades the chain attack for extra armour and bulldoze. Other than that it has the same P+S and rain of death instead of vent steam which is about the same in terms of use. Pathfinder is a moot point in jaws where every jack has pathfinder. Now in WGK i could see it but honestly I'm not sure if I'd run andy in WGK to begin with. That being said I'd rather run a marauder or juggernaut over both the devvy or the kodiak on andy anyway, because they give you more bang for less bucks.
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Post by P'tit Nico on Jul 29, 2020 13:27:31 GMT
Hey guys,
My 2 cents on Karchev and your lists: - most of the time, Battle Charged is a trap. Switching to Road to War is too expensive. - I don't see the point of Malakov with Karchev. His 'jack doesn't benefit from the feat or Road to War, which are the main advantages of Big K.
This is the list I currently play:
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Karchev
Jul 29, 2020 14:17:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 29, 2020 14:17:27 GMT
Why would you not just use a devastator which trades the chain attack for extra armour and bulldoze. Other than that it has the same P+S and rain of death instead of vent steam which is about the same in terms of use. Pathfinder is a moot point in jaws where every jack has pathfinder. Fair point about Pathfinder. The Kodiak is still cheaper, and of course the extra 2" when running is not a bad thing to have; getting up the board quicker and all that. But yeah, you're right, the Kodiak has less value here than usual.
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Post by michael on Jul 29, 2020 15:03:40 GMT
Vent Steam is a free ability, and literally nothing in the game prevents you from using it. So that's a thing. Also, yes, Malakov's jack doesn't benefit from Karchev's kit, but there's some real value in having at least one jack -- a Destroyer is what I often used, along with Kodiak and Grolar -- that can be fully fueled without taxing Karchev's focus. Karchev can't do it all by himself.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 29, 2020 18:37:36 GMT
Karchev can't do it all by himself. Maybe not, but team him up with Strakhov and that's a different story! Speaking of which, I'm really looking forwards to the teased Riot Quest Karchev. Do you think he'll be caster or a solo? It would be cool to be able to actually run Karchev alongside Strakhov on the table in a normal game!
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Post by sand20go on Jul 29, 2020 19:05:54 GMT
DO NOT discount running a devastator under Andy0. Put redline on it, RUN 12 inches, bulldoze something BACK toward you and hit it hard. It operates many ways as a threat extender.
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