sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Aug 10, 2020 18:59:40 GMT
I'd say other factions would kill for a light this good at 6 points. Especially since you can give it sprint now. In fact i dont think many factions even have a light that costs 6 points.
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Post by copperflame on Aug 11, 2020 13:39:12 GMT
Giving the Raek sprint is cute but I'm not sure if it is cost efficient to do so? I mean, it could come in and kill a few infantry or ding up another light before scurring off. But then you would need Golab and a caster (or Blight Archon?) to invest in that strategy. No doubt it is good, but help me see where it starts to become broken. I guess it is the fury expenditure I'm leery about?
BUT - I don't know other factions very well so I don't know how he compares to others. I know there are some lights that I should fear (Cygnar has some ranged ones that have obliterated me, Skorn has some that I have suffered against, etc.) But I don't know their point cost.
I liked the Raek before the point drop but couldn't fit him in many lists. Maybe 7 would be best?
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Aug 11, 2020 17:20:22 GMT
Giving the Raek sprint is cute but I'm not sure if it is cost efficient to do so? I mean, it could come in and kill a few infantry or ding up another light before scurring off. But then you would need Golab and a caster (or Blight Archon?) to invest in that strategy. No doubt it is good, but help me see where it starts to become broken. I guess it is the fury expenditure I'm leery about? BUT - I don't know other factions very well so I don't know how he compares to others. I know there are some lights that I should fear (Cygnar has some ranged ones that have obliterated me, Skorn has some that I have suffered against, etc.) But I don't know their point cost. I liked the Raek before the point drop but couldn't fit him in many lists. Maybe 7 would be best? You can compare it to the Gorehound, same point cost gets you one less attack (P+S 11), +1 native reach but no bounding leap, sprint animus, prowl instead of stealth, ghostly, and no pathfinder. +2 hp, but -1 armor and defense. No native sprint/ghostly is a big deal, it means it needs support to do the Gorehound's hit and run shtick, but the superior threat range (potentially a lot with slipstream) means it's a lot better at assassinating support pieces. Much better survivability too imo, 15 vs 14 def can save it from a lot of hits and if it takes more than 2 damage rolls to kill it that +1 armor cancels out the -2 HP. At a glance it does feel to me like the Raek's too good now, as others have said it almost completely invalidates the Shredder. I basically never see anyone running it nowadays, I doubt this is going to help.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 11, 2020 20:04:15 GMT
I think we can stop worrying about the role of the shredder.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Aug 12, 2020 9:23:19 GMT
Giving the Raek sprint is cute but I'm not sure if it is cost efficient to do so? I mean, it could come in and kill a few infantry or ding up another light before scurring off. But then you would need Golab and a caster (or Blight Archon?) to invest in that strategy. No doubt it is good, but help me see where it starts to become broken. I guess it is the fury expenditure I'm leery about? BUT - I don't know other factions very well so I don't know how he compares to others. I know there are some lights that I should fear (Cygnar has some ranged ones that have obliterated me, Skorn has some that I have suffered against, etc.) But I don't know their point cost. I liked the Raek before the point drop but couldn't fit him in many lists. Maybe 7 would be best? I mean the Raek + Harrier/MecShredder combo is probably the cheapest way to get a Blight Archon into your list while also giving it enough fury each turn to do its thing. The raek also realyl benefits from the archons sprint upkeep the most. I dont know if it's broken, but it seems pretty good to me. It just gels together very well. In fact i'd argue the Raek right now is one of the few appropriately costed non-character living warbeasts. Personally i am more of a warmachine player, so lets take a look at light jacks: Cygnar is in the 8-10 category and their lights are pretty phenomenal. Their cheapes ligths are the sentinel (bad) and the firefly (very good). Khador doesnt have lights. The cheapest jack in mercs are the Bucaneer and Talon, the latter being a very good piece, the former being bad, because one kd net a turn is nothing to write home about in todays meta. Protectorate has some quality jacks too, but none of them cost 6 points. 7 points is once again the lowest cost found in that faction. This is actually pretty bonkers considering Choir, which prot jack evidently don't pay a tax for in their balance like other factiosn with similar support do. Cryx is the only other warmachine faction with a 6 point jack, the deathripper, which is pretty much purely an arcnode with no other frills like its chickenjack brethren. The stalker is also the most similar in terms of rules to the raek, yet pays 2 points extra for blessed and GW on its weapons, which i think is a fair trade tbh. So in conclusion, i think having a light this good at 6 points compares pretty favourably to other factions. Especially since it is able to do some work by itself with the right support (archon), instead of being a speedbump (Talon) or a pure arc node (Deathripper), or support (firefly) it should be able to trade up as well.
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Post by copperflame on Aug 12, 2020 14:03:56 GMT
shmeep – Thanks for the info, that does make a good 1 v 1 comparison. I can definitely see the argument better. But I don’t think trying to validate the Raek to the Shredder offers any worth-while data. IMO – the Shredder is for fun shredder-spam lists, not a model to set any sort of standard with. The Shredder is a light and it does not server the same functions as the Raek, not to mention all the issues (I have) with the Shredder as a model. If you want to dive into why you don’t see it anymore, would be happy to carve that out into a new thread to dive into. sorokin – Ahh… you know, I largely glossed over a combination of Blight Archon + Raek + Blightwasp. I think that may be a reason why the Raek went down in points, because it pairs so well with the Blight Archon (Sprint, extra control range). Hmmm – see, this is why I don’t go into business for myself On a serious note… for that combo package – would it be effective enough to remove an equal number of enemy models? I want to say yes, particularly the ability to get to problematic models with a solid degree of success and with a chance to Zoidburg its out of there. Broken? Definitely strong… I want to play it to see if it makes me feel too dirty.
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Post by copperflame on Aug 14, 2020 13:56:44 GMT
...combination of Blight Archon + Raek + Blightwasp.... Doesn't work - Hornet's Nest only affects lesser warbeasts. I fail
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Post by voidbender on Aug 14, 2020 15:00:52 GMT
The blight archon has a lot of potential, but I'm not afraid of playing against it without using it, which has been my personal metric for balance.
To get the most out of the blarchon you'll need at least a lesser (probably mekanoshredder) and a raek. If you camp at least one this will provide enough fury for it to leach next turn while leaving a beast open for transfers. It also gives the option to go all out and leach all fury if it somehow survives. That's 18 points, assuming they don't make it a requisition option.
If you put serious additional effort into buffing an initial 18 point investment, I'm not sure it's a problem that it could take out a colossal (and immediately die the next turn with no transfers and 10 boxes, causing the warbeasts to become nearly useless too). And the archon itself is the only part of that package that can hurt hard targets.
More commonly I expect it to be used conservatively for it and its battlegroup to hit and run vs light targets, which may also be reasonable for an 18 point package.
The armor spell may need a look because of its interaction with primal terrors. Aside from that, on paper I'd rather face the blarchon with its bg than equivalent points in menite archons and their bodyguards.
Time will tell.
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Post by wasted79 on Sept 10, 2020 16:28:22 GMT
Hey guys (and gals),
does someone know when Privateer Press will update WarRoom 2 with the final changes from the CID?
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Post by chillychinaman on Sept 10, 2020 18:16:58 GMT
Hey guys (and gals), does someone know when Privateer Press will update WarRoom 2 with the final changes from the CID? I think it's typically about 3 months after for them to finalize the changes and line it up with the model release, so they'll probably be out around November.
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Post by wasted79 on Sept 10, 2020 19:28:16 GMT
Hey guys (and gals), does someone know when Privateer Press will update WarRoom 2 with the final changes from the CID? I think it's typically about 3 months after for them to finalize the changes and line it up with the model release, so they'll probably be out around November.
Thank you
I was expecting it already, so i will be more patient lol
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Post by rhonlore on Sept 10, 2020 21:18:52 GMT
September 23rd it will go live.
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Sept 11, 2020 12:31:57 GMT
The cheapest jack in mercs are the Bucaneer and Talon, the latter being a very good piece, the former being bad, because one kd net a turn is nothing to write home about in todays meta. So in conclusion, i think having a light this good at 6 points compares pretty favourably to other factions. Especially since it is able to do some work by itself with the right support (archon), instead of being a speedbump (Talon) or a pure arc node (Deathripper), or support (firefly) it should be able to trade up as well. Actually the cheapest Merc jacks are Gunners and Blasters at 6pts, both very very good for their cost. If they werent Rhulic I'd argue that they're too good. I faced a couple of Raeks yesterday and they were very good, not sure if they're too good.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Sept 11, 2020 14:55:46 GMT
The cheapest jack in mercs are the Bucaneer and Talon, the latter being a very good piece, the former being bad, because one kd net a turn is nothing to write home about in todays meta. So in conclusion, i think having a light this good at 6 points compares pretty favourably to other factions. Especially since it is able to do some work by itself with the right support (archon), instead of being a speedbump (Talon) or a pure arc node (Deathripper), or support (firefly) it should be able to trade up as well. Actually the cheapest Merc jacks are Gunners and Blasters at 6pts, both very very good for their cost. If they werent Rhulic I'd argue that they're too good. I faced a couple of Raeks yesterday and they were very good, not sure if they're too good. Ah yeah, i forgot dwarves exist again.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Sept 11, 2020 15:18:21 GMT
Actually the cheapest Merc jacks are Gunners and Blasters at 6pts, both very very good for their cost. If they werent Rhulic I'd argue that they're too good. I faced a couple of Raeks yesterday and they were very good, not sure if they're too good. Ah yeah, i forgot dwarves exist again. You might say you overlooked them...
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