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Post by voidbender on Jul 21, 2020 23:25:18 GMT
Gun lines are certainly still a thing in my metas. Sloan in infernals was the Boogeyman shortly before the pandemic, I spent over a year trying to find a way for legion to play into double tridents, and my best list into it so far had been 74 points of minions in oracles. The judicator is still a thing, and not because of its melee.
With B1 and thrones (and a few other tools), I just may get to play a mostly legion list into those matchups again.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 22, 2020 4:56:30 GMT
We should argue for Zuriel getting his old animus back.
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Post by drakkenblut on Jul 22, 2020 7:10:32 GMT
Archons not limited to any beast type has so much potential...
Lyl2 got a new lease on viability. She can take Archons (who also have a gun and are a viable melee threat as bonus) and each of them can have her own shooting battlegroup. Teraphs, Seraphs, Archangels, Ravagores, Nephilim Bolts (Animus!), Nagas(Animus!)... Even with Shield Guard saturation it should be a new level of threat - a Gargossal should be shot off the table in one turn easily(maybe even not a Feat turn).
Remember, Soothing Song works on ALL beasts, not just battlegroup.
Should be intersting to see what is the optimum build, we are spoilt for choice here and the only limitation are the points available.
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Post by copperflame on Jul 22, 2020 14:01:07 GMT
We should argue for Zuriel getting his old animus back. HAHA as much as I would love for Big Z to get his old animus back - I don't see that happening. Now, I think there is design room for a animus/ability that would allow boosted attack rolls on Sprays. Maybe that would be the trick? We do need either enough DEF to make the current animus work or something different. I don't know what the something different is (other than what I suggested above).
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 22, 2020 20:39:12 GMT
We should argue for Zuriel getting his old animus back. HAHA as much as I would love for Big Z to get his old animus back - I don't see that happening. Now, I think there is design room for a animus/ability that would allow boosted attack rolls on Sprays. Maybe that would be the trick? We do need either enough DEF to make the current animus work or something different. I don't know what the something different is (other than what I suggested above). I chatted briefly with Hungerford about it. He said to make a case in the CID forums.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 23, 2020 16:42:15 GMT
For those of us who didnt play in mk3; what did zuriel's animus do back then?
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 23, 2020 17:51:05 GMT
For those of us who didnt play in mk3; what did zuriel's animus do back then? Boosted attack rolls on non-officer grunt warrior models. Super-fun with Lylyth2.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 23, 2020 19:06:52 GMT
For those of us who didnt play in mk3; what did zuriel's animus do back then? Boosted attack rolls on non-officer grunt warrior models. Super-fun with Lylyth2. Damn mk2 souns liek a weird time. Non-officer warrior models? In his cmd for a tirn? Or target model/unit?
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 23, 2020 20:29:42 GMT
It was just SELF and for all of his own attacks against something in a unit that isn't the unit leader. It cost 1 fury, I believe. I'd have to dig out my MkII cards. He shredded light infantry.
If you think that was weird, you should have seen MkI, where the unit leader had different stats from the rest of the unit, sometimes entirely different weapons and abilities.
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jul 24, 2020 9:54:48 GMT
Has anyone managed to get use out of the fact Belthane1 can feat on Minion models? Given they highlighted this during the week 2 rules announcement I thought I'd try to make something of it, but it just doesn't work at all. Currently I'd rather play her in CotD (in my current list the feat affects her, Yssylla and the BFS instead of almost the whole army and it doesn't feel like a loss).
Have posted my thoughts on the CiD forums, but not got much notice sadly.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by copperflame on Jul 24, 2020 14:15:04 GMT
thelat - really? Man - Big Z with L3 was my jam, value city. thebuoyancyofwater - I have not. I don't own many minion models so I haven't gone down that road. But I'm not aware of many minion models with strong magical attacks outside of the warlocks?
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jul 24, 2020 14:48:30 GMT
thelat - really? Man - Big Z with L3 was my jam, value city. thebuoyancyofwater - I have not. I don't own many minion models so I haven't gone down that road. But I'm not aware of many minion models with strong magical attacks outside of the warlocks? I tried the gator an bokur with shamblers (Hand of Glory for stationary) and the spirit cauldron (Spectral Lash). Due to wanting to feat when hex hunters get in range and them ADing the feat went off before the Minions were in range. If I'd waited most of the hex hunters would die and so they wouldn't be around to feat on. The same issue means the BFS don't really benefit if hex hunters are around either, which is why I'm happy to ditch the hex hunters and then the feat can be held a turn or two more. Cheers, Dave
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 24, 2020 17:47:20 GMT
thelat - really? Man - Big Z with L3 was my jam, value city. I had an all-stealth, all spray warbeasts L2 list. Worked surprisingly well. I miss it.
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eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by eauc on Jul 24, 2020 18:05:11 GMT
final minor tweaks
mainly the angelius gets reach2 on its bite, to simplify rules interaction (which is good as they were quite funky). in the end it's much better, not because of point reduction (see what that did for the ravagore ? nothing) but because he's more unique in faction, different from neraph, a bit more universal in threat, and he can even re-gain overtake with the one warlock who wants to play him. also at 15pts I feel he's closer to an opportunity slot in some list, without being outrageously spammable. still curious to see if sprinting angelius become a thing with archon, still cost a lot and sprint is cute on paper but less workable in reality. I note he can armor pierce and then move twice with side step before sprinting, meaning he ends 13" from target before factoring in repulse. still feel repulse is a lot less usable for protection and scenario in current meta where half the models in competitive lists are or can be made unpushable when they face an angelius. even attractor is hard to use correctly now.
as answer to a few other posts: - tridents have disapeared around here, since they struggle against other new factions and lists. but I had success with some simple lists, and only 20pts of minions in them. judicator are a thing still, but again, apply absy2 lessers to the face. and also now archangels should destroy them in alpha strike quite easily. which is a strange thing to say. also really should a gunline struggle against the arm20~22ish of a legion build under deceleration, then maybe it's not a good competitive gunline. other armies achieve those before feat and buffs. stacking armor on naturally poor armor models is not expected to be really competitive. I'm not saying it's useless either, on throne it will be good (mainly because throne were already playable before) not very very good because my thrones always die in melee. on archangel quite good I think. on some melee units like swdmen it might save a few from blasts (see iron flesh for relevance).
- zuriel should definitely cost less than a throne as is, since he's not nearly as good. the only stuff he's better at is wardude kill, and then golab does that as well, plays in more theme, and does other really good things. I've not played zuriel outside of my k2 build for a long long time. and even now i'm playing it in ravens with carnis, golab, and it's so much better at wardude kill than my children list with zuriel. another way is indeed to 1/ give him an animus (seriously, this works for all our unplayed beats. give them animi. too hard ?) 2/ make him credible against heavies (probably more str, maybe a cute rule like amputation or just grievious wound)
- azrael is defensively poor, and rng10. which means if he shoots, he's dead (relatively easily) next turn. and today a serious competitive list can shield guard or sac pawn or whatever his 2 shots per game. just give him animus snipe, even at cost 2. this force decisions since sniping him will prevent him from boosting correctly and reload. which means he can reallistically boost one shot from afar or 2 if he commits. also give him a second melee attack. 19pts for 2 shield guarded shots per game is... better than 21pts. god knows I've played him a lot with zuriel in children but you get tired of trading 18/21pts heavies for free shield guards and a 13pts melee unit. in fact I stopped playing the both of them when they stopped being the only beasts playable in children. now in children I reach for typhon or carni first 100% of my lists.
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eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by eauc on Jul 24, 2020 18:10:25 GMT
very nice idea about lylyth 2 and archons. indeed. I'm going to try some lists. I'm afraid this will cost too much anyway, with the archons tax, and we don't have enough good shooting options (unless you count the carni ?)
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