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Post by wasted79 on Jul 20, 2020 18:54:50 GMT
My grain of salt: UNSTABLE= for each focus spent, deal 1d3 dmg to it. When this warjack become disabled, it explode causing pow 14.....
Feel as the warjack is desintegrating all by itself. They could even add that is harder to repair, so -1 on repair rolls lol
What do you think?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 21, 2020 5:10:19 GMT
My grain of salt: UNSTABLE= for each focus spent, deal 1d3 dmg to it. When this warjack become disabled, it explode causing pow 14..... Feel as the warjack is desintegrating all by itself. They could even add that is harder to repair, so -1 on repair rolls lol What do you think? I think that's a very thematic idea, and the difficulty with repair helps prevent "gaming the system". |
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Post by shattersword on Jul 21, 2020 8:06:47 GMT
I always thought unstable should be like it currently is but you subtract the number of functional cortex boxes from the roll.
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Post by Korianneder on Jul 21, 2020 13:49:07 GMT
Any changes to unstable will also change Prospero in cg. He has a spell called instability equation where for 1 focus target jack stands up, loses stationary, changes facing, gets 3 focus and unstable. So if unstable was like d3 damage per focus or one cortex box per focus, cg just gets 12 free focus a turn for minimal damage. As a cg player, I'm not gonna say no to that, but something to be aware of.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 21, 2020 14:10:46 GMT
Any changes to unstable will also change Prospero in cg. He has a spell called instability equation where for 1 focus target jack stands up, loses stationary, changes facing, gets 3 focus and unstable. So if unstable was like d3 damage per focus or one cortex box per focus, cg just gets 12 free focus a turn for minimal damage. As a cg player, I'm not gonna say no to that, but something to be aware of. Maybe we can get them to change unstable during the CG CID and profit off of that secretly. Comrads we need to lay down the axes and need to be subtle for once in our lives. This requires a kayazy-esque stealth mission! |
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Post by michael on Jul 21, 2020 16:13:14 GMT
Any changes to unstable will also change Prospero in cg. He has a spell called instability equation where for 1 focus target jack stands up, loses stationary, changes facing, gets 3 focus and unstable. So if unstable was like d3 damage per focus or one cortex box per focus, cg just gets 12 free focus a turn for minimal damage. As a cg player, I'm not gonna say no to that, but something to be aware of. I am aware, trust me.  I created and tested the rules I suggested long before CG existed.  My version gives a bump to Prospero, which probably can’t hurt, because I have never seen him on the table. Regardless, the problem with the Unstable suggestion above is the same as current Unstable: it is a rule that penalizes the player for using the model in the normal fashion. Let’s look at something comparable: Redline. Redline provides a tangible benefit (+SPD, +STR, free charges/etc.) in exchange for damage. Likewise, Instability Equation gives superb (!) bonuses in exchange of the risk of exploding. Vanilla Unstable is purely a penalty for using the model as it was designed. Boosting is the whole POINT of models being able to spend focus. Every other “screw yourself over for actually using the models” rule from Mark I — like the Deliverers exploding on a roll of all 1’s — got removed in MK II and MK III, except this. Exploding when using focus is core to the concept of Berserkers and 100%, non-negotiable, Word of God is that will not change. I just want to make that concession worth it, somehow. |
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Post by michael on Jul 21, 2020 16:16:58 GMT
Maybe we can get them to change unstable during the CG CID and profit off of that secretly. Comrads we need to lay down the axes and need to be subtle for once in our lives. This requires a kayazy-esque stealth mission! I suspect CG won’t be getting any CID any time soon, considering the faction is still practically brand-new. |
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Post by wasted79 on Jul 21, 2020 16:24:57 GMT
I am aware, trust me. I created and tested the rules I suggested long before CG existed. My version gives a bump to Prospero, which probably can’t hurt, because I have never seen him on the table. Regardless, the problem with the Unstable suggestion above is the same as current Unstable: it is a rule that penalizes the player for using the model in the normal fashion. Let’s look at something comparable: Redline. Redline provides a tangible benefit (+SPD, +STR, free charges/etc.) in exchange for damage. Likewise, Instability Equation gives superb (!) bonuses in exchange of the risk of exploding. Vanilla Unstable is purely a penalty for using the model as it was designed. Boosting is the whole POINT of models being able to spend focus. Every other “screw yourself over for actually using the models” rule from Mark I — like the Deliverers exploding on a roll of all 1’s — got removed in MK II and MK III, except this. Exploding when using focus is core to the concept of Berserkers and 100%, non-negotiable, Word of God is that will not change. I just want to make that concession worth it, somehow. How about a delayed Explosion? Once you failed to make an unstable roll, warjack get 4 focus next turn and explode once it's activation is completed. |
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Post by wasted79 on Jul 21, 2020 16:26:16 GMT
How about a delayed Explosion? Once you failed to make an unstable roll, warjack get 4 focus next turn and explode once it's activation is completed.
(sorry seems i don't use the "quote" option correctly...)
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Post by wasted79 on Jul 21, 2020 16:27:01 GMT
It's like, it's supercharging before exploding.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Jul 21, 2020 16:50:48 GMT
Maybe we can get them to change unstable during the CG CID and profit off of that secretly. Comrads we need to lay down the axes and need to be subtle for once in our lives. This requires a kayazy-esque stealth mission! I suspect CG won’t be getting any CID any time soon, considering the faction is still practically brand-new. I mean hungerford has literally said next year will have a CG block with new stuff based on the CG response to the infernal invasion. |
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Post by michael on Jul 21, 2020 18:58:16 GMT
I suspect CG won’t be getting any CID any time soon, considering the faction is still practically brand-new. I mean hungerford has literally said next year will have a CG block with new stuff based on the CG response to the infernal invasion. I guess it depends on what you consider “soon.” At current rates, “next year” probably literally means “a year from now.” But yes, I did forget that Hungerford teased the CG stuff. Still, I do not expect to see any serious rebalancing issues for an effectively new faction. |
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Post by michael on Jul 21, 2020 19:01:38 GMT
How about a delayed Explosion? Once you failed to make an unstable roll, warjack get 4 focus next turn and explode once it's activation is completed. (sorry seems i don't use the "quote" option correctly...) Once a Berserker has used 3 focus, it will not survive another turn. It is committed, and committed Berserkers are dead Berserkers. A worse Slayer stat line (and effectively no in-faction DEF/ARM buffs) does not make for a durable model. |
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Post by sand20go on Jul 29, 2020 19:10:16 GMT
How about a delayed Explosion? Once you failed to make an unstable roll, warjack get 4 focus next turn and explode once it's activation is completed. (sorry seems i don't use the "quote" option correctly...) Once a Berserker has used 3 focus, it will not survive another turn. It is committed, and committed Berserkers are dead Berserkers. A worse Slayer stat line (and effectively no in-faction DEF/ARM buffs) does not make for a durable model. +1. But the big thing is that even as a paper thin jack it takes attacks and resources to remove. Not much but still takes rolls. The unstable rule on a model that costs that much is ridiculous because it blowing up is instrumentally helpful to your opponent compared to the value the Zerker is likely to do. Now if it was a POW 24 blast (cause it is a fire trucking JACK BLOWING UP!!) THat might compensate. But the damage done by it just isn't scary enough to make it a viable strategy (compared to say Rain of Death that is the great uber star attack of all time) |
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olaf
Junior Strategist
Posts: 101
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Post by olaf on Jan 4, 2021 13:14:29 GMT
Mad Dogs absolutely. They were far to undercosted. Don't make a heavy warjack cost the same as a cheap light or expensive solo. Just don't. If you want the Mad Dog to be costed like a light jack, make it a light jack. In which case it would be better to have less beat stick and more utility in its design.
Karchev, no not at all. Just don't give him the option of running 12+ heavy khador warjacks.
Michael's fixes all seem perfect to me. Would have to test the point cost though.
As for unstable being a non-negotiable core concepts, there are a number of such core concepts in Khador which rightly belongs tossed into the trash. Dunno about unstable being one of them because the only model with it I've ever run is the Rager. I'd probably just remove it and make the three berserker chassi's into lights.
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I created and tested the rules I suggested long before CG existed. 
