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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 2, 2020 9:57:10 GMT
I just saw this and really like the design: Having those building and stuff integrated into the model really gets the scale across, and is just very cool and unique. But I hadn't heard of "The Waste" before. Browsing a bit more, it looks like there's a whole bunch of factions now, many of which don't actually have many models out yet. In fact many of them aren't even listed on the Monsterpocalypse website! The Waste and Green Fury for example are not listed in the faction list (at least not in the gallery), and factions such as Savage Swarm and Elemental Champions only have a single model. So... yeah, I'm just wondering if PP should focus on getting at least one monster and three unit packs available for each faction before they start introducing models for new factions? I guess you can always just run a monster with a bunch of units from other aligned factions, so I guess it's fine. Although The Waste isn't listed on the Agenda list. I assume it's Destroyers? Anyway, I reckon the "clear green" version of Globbicus could look very cool and I am tempted to buy it. It's a shame the photos does not seem to be displaying the clear version.
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Post by michael on Apr 2, 2020 17:40:57 GMT
The number of factions and the depth of given factions don’t really matter because the game is divided into Agendas.
Perfect release parity, like we saw during the first ~13 years of Warmachine or in MonPoc 1.0, is not really necessary. The MonPoc 1.0 “every faction gets overlapping models with every ability” design just won’t work in this edition.
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Post by Charistoph on Apr 2, 2020 18:43:30 GMT
There used to be many Agendas, but they've simplified them down to 2. I'm rather sad at that, but I almost can understand that. We've seen some splits between the factions and their agendas, like with Ubercorp and Shadow Sun used to be partners in the Collaborators Agenda but now being being separated between Destruction and Protectors, respectively. I would have like them to at least applied at a little will to having 2 more Agendas for a total of 4, covering the more subtle differences between the two. Mars destroying Earth doesn't seem right, but conquering it does, as an example.
Still, the more factions the better, as it adds to the diversity of the model selection, which can bring more people in to the game. Not everybody is in to Mecha or Cthulu, but they may like Kaiju or super-bugs.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 3, 2020 2:58:07 GMT
To he honest I like the freedom you get from the Agendas; I'm in this for the monsters, Agendas mean I can pick an individual monster that I like and not have to worry about grabbing a bunch of units too.
It just feels strange to check out a "faction" and realise they only have one single model is all.
I agree that it feels strange to have factions that want to take over Earth aligned with factions that want to destroy it, but I guess you can think of it as them forming temporary alliances; something villains (and I believe Kaiju) do quite regularly.
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Post by Charistoph on Apr 3, 2020 3:59:11 GMT
It's not that I think pairing down the Agendas was bad, I just think they went too far with it. With MonPoc 1 they had planned up to 14 factions across 6 agendas (and I don't even know where Voltron fit in to that, probably the extra 2). Now, 6 would probably be too much, but I think 4 is a nice balance point just so a person can get that nuance.
With 4 Agendas, you can have two starters, with each paired up, and provide a starting option for people to choose from. I'm not a fan of GUARD or Planet Eaters, but I'm either stuck with getting that starter or buying everything piecemeal. I think that releasing the Terrasors and Martian Menace as a starter set to represent the Radicals and Invaders/Fiends as separate Agendas would have worked.
At this point it is water under the bridge, though, as they are running out of the old factions, adding new ones, and no sign of bringing new Agendas on board.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 3, 2020 5:19:33 GMT
Yeah, it's a bit of a shame you kind of need to buy a starter to play and there's only two options.
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Post by Charistoph on Apr 3, 2020 6:32:49 GMT
Yeah, it's a bit of a shame you kind of need to buy a starter to play and there's only two options. Especially when they did 4 with Warmachine, 4 with Hordes, and I suspect theoretically with Warcaster (though when or who that 4th will come is anyone's guess).
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Apr 3, 2020 20:11:52 GMT
I honestly think they should have gone with 4 factions.
1 - Preserve society & world (ex. GUARD, Shadow Sun) 2 - Destroy society, preserve world (ex. Terrasaurs, Green Fury) 3 - Conquer society, preserve world (ex. Martians, Ubercorps) 4 - Destroy society & world (ex. Planet Eaters, Cthul)
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Post by michael on Apr 3, 2020 21:02:01 GMT
The breakdown is essentially this:
Are you fundamentally okay with the planet as it is? Then you’re a Protector.
If you are trying to wreck the planet or use it for your own purposes, you’re a Destroyer.
Basically, are you a good guy or a bad guy? It is that simple and keeping right in line with the basic good guy vs. bad guy structure of most monster movies.
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Post by Charistoph on Apr 3, 2020 21:51:26 GMT
The breakdown is essentially this: Are you fundamentally okay with the planet as it is? Then you’re a Protector. If you are trying to wreck the planet or use it for your own purposes, you’re a Destroyer. Basically, are you a good guy or a bad guy? It is that simple and keeping right in line with the basic good guy vs. bad guy structure of most monster movies. The problem is that some would see GUARD as Destroyers because they are part of the military-industrial complex. But I guess that's too much in to the real-world-politics area to justify.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Apr 3, 2020 22:41:45 GMT
The breakdown is essentially this: Are you fundamentally okay with the planet as it is? Then you’re a Protector. If you are trying to wreck the planet or use it for your own purposes, you’re a Destroyer. Basically, are you a good guy or a bad guy? It is that simple and keeping right in line with the basic good guy vs. bad guy structure of most monster movies. I recognize that this is the breakdown, it just feels odd for me to see, for example, Ubercorps (trying to cause some damage to say "look, prospective buyer, at how awesome our robots are! Shouldn't you buy one to prevent damage in your city?") alongside Planet Eaters (trying to nom-nom everything). Or Martians (give us your stuff! Also, become abducted and serve as slaves and/or food, not to sure on this one) alongside Cthul (? ? ? ?). Thus, I'd prefer a slight narrowing of agendas, to better align the goals of all members in said agenda.
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Post by michael on Apr 3, 2020 23:45:11 GMT
Planet Eaters are out to eat the planet.
The Martian Menace is here to strip-mine the planet; they don’t care about subjugating humans.
Ubercorp is out to obtain as much wealth and power as they can, at the expense of their fellow humans, because they expect the Monsterpocalypse will be the end of humanity and their management wants to live it up while they can.
In all of these cases, the factions are out to use the planet for their own nefarious purposes. They don’t care about anyone else, only about themselves.
That is the common theme amongst destroyers.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Apr 4, 2020 1:13:09 GMT
So going off the briefs on the official monpoc site, the motives for each are:
Destroyers: -Cthul - Unknown ("No one knows if the cultists who summoned the Lords of Cthul to our world did so intentionally or accidentally"), possible want worshipers ("Those who will not kneel are transformed into hideous mockeries of their former selves")
-Martians - resources ("looked beyond their home for new resources and, conveniently, found Earth right around the cosmic corner."), conquer the planet ("...said goodbye to Mars once and for all, and mobilized their fleet. The invasion of Earth had begun."), not just strip mine
-Planet Eaters - Nom-Nom ("With no apparent purpose other than to consume everything in their path")
-Subterran - Live on the surface ("The tyrants’ ultimate goal is to blot out the sun so they may live comfortably on Earth’s surface despite their highly photosensitive eyes."), enslave humans ("send citizens running heedlessly into the arms of Subterran slavers.")
-Ubercorps - $$$ ("is its only protecting its own revenue stream with grandiose publicity stunts disguised as public service")
-Savage Swarm - moths drawn to light ("appear intent on demolishing anything even slightly luminescent")
Protectors
-GUARD - stop the baddies ("to take on the cosmic invaders and underworld conquerors"), debatable if trying to save lives ("often criticize G.U.A.R.D. and its “cowboy” attitude for causing as much destruction as it prevents")
-Terrasaurs - stop baddies, don't care about cities ("The Terrasaurs do drive off other threats to the world, but in doing so they leave whole city blocks flattened. To those who view industrialization and progress as an existential threat to the world, this collateral damage is a further victory.")
-SSI - protect lives/stop baddies ("Shadow Sun Syndicate alleges its mission is to preserve humanity and society"), gain control ("What they claim is an altruistic effort to maintain balance in the world, critics argue is quite clearly an attempt to control it.")
-Empire of the Apes - help nature reconquer the world (" liberation of nature from humanity as a call his people could not deny."), ("They bear no ill will toward humanity but will stop at nothing to see all live in harmony with nature rather than in dominion over her.")
-Tritons - defend planet, unknown relations to humans ("rise to the surface in defense of the planet, but it is less clear on whether those creatures care about the wellbeing of humanity.")
-Green Fury - stop pollution/destruction of nature (" save the planet was violence toward polluters taking advantage of nature")
-Elemental Champions - save lives ("They seek not the harm of their enemies so much as the protection of the innocent")
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Apr 4, 2020 1:16:23 GMT
So, with looking at those, I would again state there is a clear division in Destroyers between caring about the planet's existence (UCI, Martians, Subterran) and not (Cthul, Planet Eaters, Savage Swarm), and a clear division in Protectors between keep cities/people alive (GUARD, SSI, Elemental) and return planet to nature (Terrasaurs, Empire, Green Fury), with Tritons unkown.
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Post by Charistoph on Apr 4, 2020 4:24:06 GMT
Interestingly enough, Tritons used to be in the Invaders Agenda with the Martians. They're on the Blue team now, no longer teamed up with Red Team's Martians.
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