|
Post by wasted79 on Sept 20, 2020 15:29:08 GMT
You're all forgetting an important fact about khador. PP hates our jacks. 😆 Don't compare it to other jacks in the game. Compare it to what is within our stable and in a game where the standard format is about trading, Berserkers and Marauders are the best we have as everything else is simply too expensive.
Specifically, we are penalized for our "HARD STATS!!1!"
Because there is still thisever present idea or something that if you are not careful, tables will get swamped by 12 point juggernauts or the like. The old Mad Dog nerf showed an issue they... Didn't really do much with.
You can only make a (heavy) warjack so cheap before it just becomes worth it even if it does nothing by virtue of requiring a lot of investment to take out. On the flipside, stats only do so much unless they are really high.
Conclusion: There is too little difference between our berserkers and our marauders point wise, and neither can really budge one way or the other.
Pts cost change everything, i agree When i make list for Protectorate, i always have hard times to take something else than Crusaders 😆 I can take 3x for 30pts!!! Every factions should get calibrated so your roster are priced by 2pts increments. Not having a cheap one at 10 pts and other options starting at 15-16 pts Having almost the same problem with Retribution too (just more costly)
|
|
|
Post by P'tit Nico on Sept 21, 2020 8:57:35 GMT
Worse power (-3 POW on the gun, but what the Firetruck can unboosted RAT 4 hit?, -1 POW on the shield and -2 POW on the spear) You seem to forget Point Blank. The RAT 4 shot can sometimes be useful if boosted, but it's mostly another MAT 6 POW 15 melee attack.
|
|
shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
|
Post by shmeep on Sept 21, 2020 10:01:14 GMT
Worse power (-3 POW on the gun, but what the Firetruck can unboosted RAT 4 hit?, -1 POW on the shield and -2 POW on the spear) You seem to forget Point Blank. The RAT 4 shot can sometimes be useful if boosted, but it's mostly another MAT 6 POW 15 melee attack. fair point, but only if you can actually get the Rager into melee. The Vanguard also has assault, so if it turns into a slugfest that lasts several rounds the Rager comes out on top, but how often does that happen?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 9:36:57 GMT
I've gotten my Rager into combat plenty of times.
Assuming it hasn't gotten too banged up taking shots for other jacks, it usually does a respectable job vs ARM 18-19 heavies.
Opponents usually ignore it in favour of more dangerous jacks like the Marauder.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Sept 24, 2020 9:45:59 GMT
I kind of assume "getting into combat" for the Rager normally happens when the enemy comes to you? I mean, it's the kind of jack that stands back near your caster most if the game right?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 10:02:22 GMT
I kind of assume "getting into combat" for the Rager normally happens when the enemy comes to you? I mean, it's the kind of jack that stands back near your caster most if the game right? I play fairly aggressive casters like Strakhov, Malakov and Kozlov so they're usually part of the second wave.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2020 17:27:40 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2020 23:51:52 GMT
Some Mad Dogs I built awhile back using spare parts and commissioned an acquaintance to paint 'em up for me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 0:14:40 GMT
As I mentioned on the Khador ARM thread:
Despite our sizeable warjack stable, we have a lot of redundancy and far less utility compared to other factions; all our jacks are just beatsticks at the end of the day.
I tried to prove that the faction has depth by building a highly efficient, power attack-centric jack-heavy assassination list in mk 2 and how was I rewarded? By getting every single model in my list nerfed until the list could no longer function as I intended in mk 3.
It's clear that they don't want us to be the tough, durable faction, but the doggedly determined, low-tech doodspam faction.
I think the solution is to just go cheap. Hear me out; in my experience of gaming weekly in mk 3, the Juggernaut chassis takes about 3 whacks by a buffed heavy to kill on average dice, 2 if your opponent's damage rolls spike. The Devastator takes 4/3 respectively and if it opens, it has the same survival odds as the Juggernaut. The Berserker takes about 2 to kill, spike or no.
So, knowing that your opponent will always need a minimum of 2 hits per jack to kill it, try to make sure that there's too many jacks for him to kill.
The majority of our stable is actually quite middling in terms of P+S; you'll notice that by and large, we're P+S 16 on our jacks. Berserkers are P+S 16 and if you're lucky, deals an additional POW 14 explosion or gums up your opponent's line.
They are also 8 points and thus, cheap and expendable. Go in, wail on the target, explode or get in the way. Send in the next one.
Is the Berserker great? No, but it's one of the best options that we've got to work with.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 5, 2020 6:44:17 GMT
Some Mad Dogs I built awhile back using spare parts and commissioned an acquaintance to paint 'em up for me. Not as cool as the rager clam, but the blood splatters and blue glows fit very well with the purple and look really nice against the dark colour scheme.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 11:12:15 GMT
Ta; the painter did a great job on the weathering n metalwork but he always gets the shade of purple wrong haha
I added the blood spatter because it made sense given its role.
While I have tremendously good results with using the Berserker I can't seem to get the bloody MDs to work outside of Vlad1.
I can't get it to trample any faster than 11" as most of our SPD buffs are specifically tied to charging and/or slamming.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 5, 2020 12:27:41 GMT
Do you feel 11" isn't enough? What trample distance would it need in order to work? How about using Overrun under Strakhov to move it up closer first?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 12:58:33 GMT
Do you feel 11" isn't enough? What trample distance would it need in order to work? How about using Overrun under Strakhov to move it up closer first? I thought of that, but the thing with overrun is it's a RNG 6 spell, which puts Strakhov in danger of being assassinated next turn, so I only ever use overrun in combination with Superiority and Iron Fist to end the game by sending a second wave jack 20" (includes 1" melee range) to go for the caster kill. (On a side note, Spriggan is actually ideal for this but any opponent with half a brain will see this coming a mile off) Thing with trampling is: - Ye sacrifice initials - Ye need a landing zone - Yer gonna take a few free strikes on the way (1-2" reach is pretty common with infantry) So the first hurdle isn't an issue for the mad dog, since it tramples for free and has rubbish initials anyway. The second is a bit of an issue because your opponent knows about the one thing Mad Dogs do well and will space his troops so that ye won't have a landing space. The third is also a big issue as the Mad Dog can't afford to take free strikes from most non-fodder infantry because losing its cortex from a lucky hit would be disastrous. To make the Mad Dog good enough to be a tramplebot, ye would need it to be able to trample roughly 3" further than its intended prey can threat on a charge, which is on average 11" (6 base +3 charge +2 reach), meaning for the Mad Dog to actually threaten them the Mad Dog needs to be able to trample about 14". Even with Vlad 1, the fastest ye can turbo it is 13". The reason it would need to go that far is because it can't afford to be charged. It's too soft. Actually the problem isn't the Mad Dog really, it's the trample rules itself. If trampling jacks used the same rules as impact hits from cavalry, the Mad Dog would be perfectly fine as it is.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 5, 2020 14:04:57 GMT
I thought of that, but the thing with overrun is it's a RNG 6 spell, which puts Strakhov in danger of being assassinated next turn You don't need to put Overrun on the Mad Dog itself; you're bringing a Destroyer (or, like, Victor) for triggering Overrun when you play Strakhov right?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 14:37:59 GMT
Oh man, no I don't trust Khador 'jack shooting during such a crucial moment. XD
|
|