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Post by Gamingdevil on Feb 20, 2020 8:00:27 GMT
In a way, if the rules are really good, (alternating activations, etc.) I would hope they change the Warmachine rules to match. I think the biggest problem with alternating activations in Warmachine would be figuring out how to resolve upkeep spells. I really hope they don't. What's the point of having 2 different games if they end up playing the same? Even if everything else stays the same, Warmachine with alternating activations will be a completely different game, and I would like that game (Warcaster) to actually stay a different game, so they can have something for everyone.
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Post by mydnight on Feb 20, 2020 8:57:50 GMT
In a way, if the rules are really good, (alternating activations, etc.) I would hope they change the Warmachine rules to match. I think the biggest problem with alternating activations in Warmachine would be figuring out how to resolve upkeep spells. I really hope they don't. What's the point of having 2 different games if they end up playing the same? Even if everything else stays the same, Warmachine with alternating activations will be a completely different game, and I would like that game (Warcaster) to actually stay a different game, so they can have something for everyone. Agreed. Warmachine's system allows for more combos and synergy. Although it bores the other player to death, it also gives an entirely different feel. The problem is warmachine's model and activation count has increased considerably since it's early days.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Feb 20, 2020 10:17:55 GMT
I just had a skim of the website. The models look good to me, the brief bit of background hints at some evocative elements so the fluff has potential, and the description of the gameplay seems to have some familiar elements but also some massive departures from Warmachine, which sounds like a good way to give your established playerbase something that is likely to appeal to them and easy for them to pick up, but different enough to be fresh and interesting. So yeah, so far I'm feeling optimistic.
I am a little curious: there's no caster to kill and attrition losses can be mitigated by summoning reinforcements, so I guess the game will be all about scenario? That's interesting; I guess it means you won't fall too far behind on attrition early and have to grind through an already-lost game, or be winning for ages and then suddenly get assassinated? It could be a positive for people who find those kinds of things frustrating. Personally I like that you've always got a chance of a hail-Mary assassination in WMH (pretty much the only way I usually win is with a lucky assassination from a losing position...), so I'm not sure how I feel about that option being off the table, but it's really too early to say.
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Post by Havock on Feb 20, 2020 10:52:19 GMT
The mechanics sound interesting. I'll wait and see.
Kickstarter is not something I am very enthusiastic about but you'll see more of it in this niche hobby. It creates both financial backing, sizes up the market and generates hype. It's here to stay.
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Asmoridin
Junior Strategist
Getting back into the game after too long a hiatus!
Posts: 323
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Post by Asmoridin on Feb 20, 2020 12:58:56 GMT
Man, looks great so far. Kickstarter isn't a turnoff for me one bit, so from what I have seen so far? All positive. Can't wait for this to start coming out!
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shmeep
Junior Strategist
Posts: 742
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Post by shmeep on Feb 20, 2020 13:16:15 GMT
I have to admit I'm not thrilled about endless reinforcements. I was hoping for bigger health pools and more impact per model, not endless waves of mooks.
The aesthetic really isn't for me either. Don't get me wrong, it's still as tight as ever, I think PP is one of if not the best in the market when it comes to art direction, but sci-fi just ain't it.
You can still clearly see that warjack look which is cool. Same structure, just modernized. It does all look a tad too similar to Infinity though, even the coloring style.
I'm probably gonna pass, but this has potential. If they release a faction that scratches just the right itch for me I'll consider it.
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fanguad
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by fanguad on Feb 20, 2020 13:36:28 GMT
I'm liking how the models look (I am also a big fan of Infinity models), although we've really only seen a handful so who knows where they're going from here. I also like how it removes the weirdness of "your 'caster was shot to death, but not really" Warmachine assassinations.
My main concern is that they're entering a very crowded marketplace. Low model count sci-fi skirmish games are a dime a dozen these days. Plenty of them have good rules and good models, and the main problem you encounter is that everyone at your FLGS plays a different one so no one can play together - and then they all die out.
Don't read too much into PP going the KS route. There are a lot of reasons to launch something using Kickstarter, and "we don't have enough money" is only one of them. For example, I know a company whose mobile app was fully completed and funded, but launched on Kickstarter just to generate buzz.
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Post by marxlives on Feb 20, 2020 15:30:19 GMT
I'll say here what iv said other places. Currently its a hard pass from me Genuinely, I really like the concept and what we have heard about the game mechanics. Smaller games, customisation, more 3D terrain, alternating activations, the spells/abilities etc, I like what im hearing. The models, I am currently aggressively neutral most of what we have seen so far. They are close to infinity which is a look that really turns me off. But as a painter I can see them looking good when painted in a “grimdark” style or by using lots of airbrush stencils on the big armour plates. But these seem to be the most “normal” factions so I will hold judgement. What really puts me off and has made me think a lot less of PP as a company is the Kickstarter. Never will I ever support a games company like this to put out a product via kickstarter. And the fact that PP needs to put their new flagship product out via kickstarter should raise alarm bells in everyone head. Either the company genuinely doesn’t have the cash to make the make game, in which case we need to be concerned and PP needs to be doing other things to make itself more stable. OR they are swinging the lead and pushing the financial risk etc onto is player base, in which case, im sorry PP (and I say this with love), go %$£* yourself. The Kickstarter thing for me trumps everything as getting products from companies via this method can be really hit and miss. Look at the example of Wyrd Miniatures "The Other Side" game. I love Malifaux but TOS was pretty much DOA because of it coming through Kickstarter, how late the products came, how little retail presence there was. If NeoMechanica turns out to be a good game and it makes it to general retail here in the UK and there is a player base to justify me buying in, then I will very happily support the game and PP by buying the product. But NOT before. You make a lot of good points. The Otherside is a great game (honestly its my favorite) but without no one picking it up, its player base is VERY small. Then again I am not sure this would have changed without KS with the exception of Wyrd going bankrupt. I am at a loss when people compare it to 40k, it definitely has a strong Infinity vibe although I am hoping that the 35mm size will make the minis easier to paint than Infinity. Mechanically they seem to be cousins.
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Post by marxlives on Feb 20, 2020 15:31:45 GMT
Contrary to most of the thread so far I'm hyped for it. I can see the resemblance to infinity but looking at the art they posted on the website there still are a lot of visual call backs to warmachine. Also the only thing PP has put out in recent memory that I didn't like (or at least I think it should have been a lot better) was Company of Iron. I still have faith enough that PP will deliver a good game that kickstarter isn't that big of a deal to me. I remain positive. I thought RQ was dumb as hell when first announced and it ended up being one of my favorite games.
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Post by marxlives on Feb 20, 2020 15:35:12 GMT
As someone who plans to continue playing warmachine I am glad they are kickstarting this, since if it tanks it won't bring the whole company down. But yes, it doesn't send a good signal but seriously guys we know PP has been skating over a thin layer of ice over the past two years. Kickstarting is the sensible choice for the company. Also it looks like it will be a relatively quick kickstarter, so basically it will be a pre-order system. Game looks promising but 20-30 models per army to start off with sounds bad because that's basically warmachine size when it first started. We know that PP has a model count bloat/inflation fetish. Hopefully they have a heavy metal equivalent of tiny games so people can start off really small. Unless your company name is GW, FFG, or WoTC you are more than likely KS for a new product launch. Mantic does it (which is pretty strong in my area), Wyrd does it, Infinity may do it (with GW and FFG swallowing all the oxygen), even Battletech did it (and they get mad royalty off of their digital products). Small companies taking risks and tankin' on a might be a hit is just not a smart move in our hobbies tight market. I am pretty sure train sets are more profitable than tin armies.
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Post by marxlives on Feb 20, 2020 15:38:41 GMT
I like it. For me, that fact that it isn’t steampunk is ok with me. If it stays a faster, more skirmish based game, I could see it not competing too hard with war machine too much. The game seems more like a gun game to me. You choose how to arm your warjacks, then choose how you want units to support. I also hope they release the gate maker faction. I am pretty excited about the guns part. Firing lanes as a strategy is a thing. Bayonet charges are super rare in modern warfare (I think the last time I heard a report of won was during the early days of the Iraq War when we were just creaming all over the country hard and said what the hell why not), so the idea of melee being a thing in sci-fi just seemed really weird to me. Probably why the only sci-fi I have liked on the tabletop so far is BattleTech.
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Post by marxlives on Feb 20, 2020 15:40:22 GMT
I want to say, before we get too negative ( or too positive), remember that this is a brand new game. I do like that PP tries to branch out to things other than war machine. Things like level 7, Monpoc, and the like are always well supported, even if they do end up only catering to a small group of players compared to war machine. Feel the same way. Even if some people give it a pass the fact that PP is not puttin all their eggs in one basket is a positive thing.
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Post by Charistoph on Feb 20, 2020 16:10:28 GMT
The Kickstarter could also help them determine how big of a launch they plan to go with. Do they go with 4 solos per faction or 7? 2 units or 4? 2 Jacks or 5? Aside from defraying the cost of the new molds, getting a take of customer interest is one of the stronger aspects of the Kickstarter regimen.
I haven't seen the podcast, and I haven't heard on anything specific, but is the summoning based on resources, like summoning zombies in Warhammer Fantasy, or based on an established Reserves like 40K, or did they not go in to specifics on that?
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mrtuna
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
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Post by mrtuna on Feb 20, 2020 16:53:10 GMT
I am overall against KS. I refuse to pay 5% under retail to take on the risk of some nobody failing to make his product properly.
That said I am 100% on board with KS for this. We know PP. they aren’t going to fail to produce a game. The top downside to WMh right now is limited marketing and small player base. KS is great as a marketing platform, and if it reels in 100k new players, awesome!!!
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gupp
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by gupp on Feb 20, 2020 17:57:33 GMT
I have a theory that the game is only 20-30 points, and so the game size is actually very small, and units just have a lot more abilities.
Each of those trooper models might, I suspect, have 5 hp or something.
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