Hi All, A dynamic update should be coming for some legacy Legion models. While we have little control over what is picked and what changes are made (yet?)... it may be helpful to have some thoughts/brainstorming over what we think are the models that need the most help and what changes could make them better.
But we also know that only so many models will be considered. Knowing this, whatever your suggestions are - try to prioritize each model with 1 = Top Priority, 2 = Second Priority, and etc. Furthermore, we should limit our lists to... 10?
Alright folks! Lets see it! What is your top 10 list of models & changes that YOU want to see in the Dynamic Update?
1 pVayl (make her awesome again, she never disserved this, and she IS Legion) 2 lessers (make them awesome again, this way we play the pot without any change to the pot itself, and we even play legos as they are - 3 changes, 30 more options) 3 lights (give them animus for the first time in the history of Legion !) 4 succubus (give us spell slave for f*cks sake) 5 betty (she has an awesome design as-is, and now she has good themes to play in, she just need 30 beast points and disintegrator COST2 imo)
Zuriel – I loved this guy in MK2 but after his change, he is garbage. For such a cool model, can we make him playable again? It could be something simple as Gunfighter or Duel-Shot to a redesign to better reflect his lore.
Teraph – another sculpt design that I love that has horrible game rules with. I would strongly campaign to give him straight up Continuous Fire and increased RAT. For his cost, AP on his tail (same with Angelli and maybe Stinger) would be welcomed. Counter Blast could have boosted Attack rolls, but I don’t know what models outside of LoE have that ability and the ramifications of that change?
Lessers – this is cheating by lumping 4 models into one category but hear me out.
Shredder: redesign to work like the wasps do today, just better. Shredders fit the “warpack” model to gang up and take larger things down (without eating each other!)
Harrier: How about an armor debuff to anything it hits with melee attack and it gain Countercharge!
Stinger: Make this the premier ranged lesser. Increase its RAT and Continuous Fire on its spray. Oh – and it wouldn’t hurt to give it AP on the tail but that’s a nice to have. The Stinger inherits Relentless Charge.List item 3
Wasps: Give Annoyance & Evasion (maybe flat out Poison on its melee attacks but that may be too much)
Hopefully you see where I’m going with these changes. By just moving a few things around between these 4 models, you get something much more effective and hopefully more enjoyable to play.
Lights (again, cheating)
Neph Solider – rather than trying to do several inefficient things at once, I would rather see this guy be some sort of specialist. If that is anti-infantry (keep Overtake, exchange brutal charge for some sort of multi-attack) or anti-warnoun (drop overtake, gain Grievous Wounds*), either would be simple improvements. *Giving Grievous Wounds would conflict with the Scythean. IMO – I think Grievous Wounds would be applied better with the Neph Solider. I think the Scythean point cost could be used better in a different role like huge-base hunter or premier melee warbeast (he has 0 range options).
Neph Protector – Safeguard to be returned is a simple way to improve this model. Reducing the point cost by half may do it but competing against an 8point, 3 use of shield guard may not be enough.
Afflictor – would removing the “once per turn” limit be enough? Maybe a point cost reduction? It definitely needs help staying alive or being cheap enough to die.
Casters (cheating... again)
pVayl – re-instate MK2 feat, maybe a cheap attack spell?
pSaeren – add boosted attack/dmg rolls during feat… (or redesign the feat completely to a debuff feat so Kryssa can get this kind of feat)
Kryssa – needs depth!
Angelius – straight up AP, reduce the cost and/or increase def.
Attraction animus – can it please be 2” instead of 1”?
Blighted Ogrun Warpsears – maybe +1 damage die against larger base size or give them stealth?
Blighted Nyss Legionnaires – cheap tarpit units need to be cheap tarpit units. (Or redesign them to match the lore – a unit of shield guards? Sacrificial pawns? Several ways to do this where they would be welcomed off of the shelf and onto the table)
Blighted Nyss Swordmen – +1 to Def and +1 to POW would be welcomed.
Keep in mind, I have not played in a year, so all of this may be crap:
- Teraph - since day one, it never was competitive. Change Critical Fire to Continuous Fire, and even that won't be enough. - Nephilim soldier - in the fluff this should be the most frequent beast among Legion, so something must be done to see the same on the tabletop. Reduce points to 7? - Lessers - they lost their role as Fury batteries (because of the Spirit rule and because of ample Beast points that leave a functional battlegroup for any Warlock), not worth to get through the Vessel, not worth to get the Beast Mistress, animi are definitively not worth it and Stinger and Wasps were not worth it from the start. Not all needs to change, but something should. - Grotesques need to find their place, they should be the quick moving throwaway pieces. - Lylyths need some trick to be competitive again, for instance if her shot is directed to a Shield Guard, that shot gains AP or something (so the Crabbit or Ogrun Bokur in question are reliably dead for Shield Guarding, and if it is a Heavy it likely loses a system/spiral) - Against Infernals (and other Hordes) we could use more Poison. So far we have it on Craelix, Anyssa and Raptors - best the beasts have is Critical Poison. Some source of Erosion may be nice too. - Shepherds are used because they are cheap, not good. I am willing to use a 2-3pt Shepherd who does more.
In general, we have some cohesion problems that won't go away just by polishing some models. Bloodseers problem is that there is not enough good animi, and we got denied some things all other factions have (Dragoon, character lesser warlock, we are one huge base behind others, we rely on high DEF yet Tenacity is gone and everyone has high MAT, we are the shooting faction yet Shield guards abound, everyone has arcnodes now, etc.) I mis MKII. I hope Archon and the Virtues bring something nice and useful.
Man ... I forgot about the Beast Mistress! Yea, I would love for her to get better but maybe she would get better by proxy if the lessers were better? I saw on FB Page where someone suggested if she could also control lights. That was suggested on this forum as well - and just like FB - 2 bad models don't make anything better was the resounding response.
I think there is a problem with so many shield guards in general. First let me state that I rather WM/H be more melee focused than ranged focused (eyes other games who do not). But Hex Hunters lost stealth because they were too good with it and a few models were released who counter stealth completely. Now it feels like the arms race has answered with shield guards. I don't know if there can be an answer to this conundrum (if there is one) in this Dynamic Update. But if our "dedicated" ranged casters can't function... then hopefully we can see a change to make them a little better.
I thought about mentioning some sort of Neph buff (between other Neph or to the troops they immolate - kinda like Hex Hunters + Bloodseer's telematry) - but I thought that may be better in a future theme as well? IDK - I like the idea either way.
Great call out on the effects with Essence!
Edit: How bad would it be if Striders lost CRA and gained poison instead? Letting Archers have that with some form of survivablity (re-positioning or blast immunity or whatever)?
1- Azrael- Releasing a brand new character warbeast that's dead on arrival is a very bad message. He should get a second initial with his claw (P+S 13 or whatever), a point drop and an actual animus. Literally any animus in the game would be better.
2- Bethayne1- They spruiked her as a new legion direction in the edition change and like many things she was an utter failure. Make her feat just 'FF models gain flank faction' and give her a couple more beast points. Her spell list is decent anyway and Belphagor is interesting enough. Regaining his immunities would be really cool. I also wouldn't be opposed to her MK2 feat coming back.
3- Nephilim soldier- overly expensive light beater that has never had a place in all its various rules. I'm thinking 8 pts and have an animus of 'target nephilim gains gang fighter.' The idea is for them to work alongside nyss right?
4- Nephilim protector- 8 pts and safeguard back, thanks. Retaliatory strike on this guy is terrible and pointless.
5- Succubus- Legion warlocks are a bit all over the place in what they want or would be too good, but I think around our various abilities we lack something to help spell slinging casters. So I say either just make her 3 points or give her *Arcane Secrets.
6- Afflictor- Sprint animus, so we have access outside Golab. He lost his one purpose in the edition change, which was to be the cheapest flying slam bot in the game.
7- Stinger- flat poison on its tail, erosion on its gun, get suicidal attack back, pick up gunfighter.
8- Hex hunters- stealth, cost 8/13, Bayal for 4.
9-Blackfrost shard- remove all their separate abilities. Give them base stealth and brittle frost.
10- Legionnaires- elite defensive single box infantry just don't work, that's why they're at the bottom of the list. I guess throw every ability possible on them and see what happens. Give the unit set defence, give the UA mage static, reduce them to 7/12 and 3 for the UA.
It's a bit hard to reduce it to 10 choices. I wanted to put Vayl1, Blightblades, Annyssa, Grotesque assassin and Blight Wasps on here. Blight wasps are actually the worst model in the faction, I just consider them deleted from the game.
Yea - I ran into the 10 limit problem myself (that I promptly cheated around). I am pretty sure we won't see 10 models worth of change in the Dynamic update though. So, if we could prioritize some models - maybe we could get the greatest amount of beneficial change possible?
1- I didn't list Azrael even though I was tempted. I love the model sculpt but even on release, I wasn't wowed by his rules/cost. But there are people who see him as a decent option. I don't hate him enough for him to make my top 10... (not as much as the fall of big Z) ... but I would be happy to see a point reduction and an useful animus.
2- I really doubt we'll see a B1 change if PP is releasing B2? I agree with your points, just don't think we'll see it.
3&4- Nice call on the Neph Solider, I like that idea! Same with Neph Protector.
5- Is the Succubus really that bad? *looks around* I've seen more and more folk put her on list like this. I mean, she's not amazing sauce but I like the cloud. Am I missing something? (to be fair - I'm not a great player so there absolutely could be )
6- Afflictor... even as the cheapest slam bot in the game, never preformed for me. It was always too squishy and never really DID anything.
7- Interesting call out on the Stinger... I don't know if I would go that direction but it would make it better!
8- Hex Hunters didn't make my top 10. Unfortunately, I think there are units with more need than they... but I wouldn't say no either
9- Oh man... I would love this change to BFS. It would simplify them and keep the same power level. Love it!