igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
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Post by igor on Feb 17, 2020 22:06:49 GMT
Komrades!
I have been trying to get an Armored Corps list working. Alas, to no avail. I want to use Sorscha3 and have tried several iterations. But I never seem to be able to nail it. In my quest I have come up with this base list:
Khador
[Theme] Armored Korps
[Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28]
- Devastator [14]
- Devastator [14]
- Devastator [14]
- Greylord Adjunct [4]
Man-O-War Kovnik [4]
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)]
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)]
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7]
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14]
- Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
The main idea is to present armour. Three Devastators at ARM 23; a unit of Shocktroopers also at ARM 23, both types Steady and Sturdy; Tankers at only ARM 21. The squishy models can hide behind the Devastators, Shocktroopers and Tankers at their low ARM 16.
Tankers for dealing with cheap infantry (potentially also the Devastators). Demolition Corps to hit things Sorscha has frozen through the Shocktrooper wall. Atanas to make life easier, and combine Unstoppable Fury with Dragos’ minifeat once the demo corps commit. Finally, a Kovnik to move things along and slam stuff once in a while.
There is also good possibilities for moving enemy stuff around with five models doing Bulldoze (and the slam).
One could argue that Devastators are a bit pillow-fisted, but Sorscha’s Field Marshall ability should handle this.
All of this goodness and there are still 12 points left. So, what should I add? By the way, I expect to use my WGK against lists with more than one huge base.
I could go with the following:
1) Kovnik + 2 Forge seers.
2) 2 Forge seers + Mechaniks.
3) Thamarite Archon + Forge seer, Mechaniks or Kovnik.
4) Drakhun + something.
4) Something completely different.
What do I think my problems are:
1) I’m low on shooting.
2) Sorscha is strapped for focus.
3) Mechaniks are good for keeping things alive, and scoring and contesting. I have traditionally been running two min units.
4) Backfield support could be a problem.
5) Anti-magic and/or shield guard for Sorscha could be good. She is not a robust as she looks.
6) Raw damage output might still be an issue.
So, Komrades any insight to help me make Armored Corps serve the Empress as it should?
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Post by michael on Feb 17, 2020 22:31:49 GMT
I would drop one Devastator and probably the Demo Corps and go from there. I don’t think Arconovich does you any good with only two units as-is; he can probably go.
Bombardiers can replace the Demo Corps.
Additionally, I would almost certainly change the other two Devastators into Kodiaks. Your damage output goes up significantly, you get some much-needed Pathfinder, you can countercharge without sacrificing armor, and so forth.
So... that’s just me though!
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Post by sand20go on Feb 18, 2020 6:04:36 GMT
Build your best sorscha3 ac list.....then swap in vlad2....you now have made it so much better.
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Post by auraco on Feb 18, 2020 12:22:53 GMT
Build your best sorscha3 ac list.....then swap in vlad2....you now have made it so much better. That's... just... No... Let the record show that I highly disagree here, the following is my opinion and the intent is not to offend anyone. Sorscha3 is probably the best pilot for armored corps, if you want to run Vlad2 just run him in Wolves where he's much better. My experience of playing vlad2 in armored corps and of playing against it is that on the feat turn the demo corps go in and then just die because they moved too far forward and the jacks just lag behind, the army lacks coherence and bottleneck itself to the enemy, while Sorscha3's army has a much more coherent feel and delivery with her jacks being fast thanks to Stoke the fire and her feat dictating when and where you engage. As for the list igor Why the devastators? Sorscha3 wants her battlegroup do be doing a lot of work, that means the devastators won't be close often (countercharge from stoke the fire is also terrible for them because it means opening them during your opponent turn). Kodiaks are the perfect jacks for her, with steam vent they help with the low volume of attack in the list to deal with infantry, they provide a much needed pathfinder and with heavy boiler and stoke the fire they can reliably get up the table pretty quickly, the field marshall also fix their pillow fist issues. I really disagree with michael about demo corps and Atanas & bannerguy. Tactician is good, tactician that can affect your caster is pretty freaking great. Sorscha3 is also my favorite caster to run the demo corps, if you want to run bombardiers go for a caster that actually support them, OW2 or Vlad1. One mistake I've seen people do a lot in armored corps is have shocktroopers on one side and unprotected demo corps on the other side, and it always does terribly when I see it on the table. With Sorscha3 you want the demo corps behind the shocktroopers with both unit and Sorscha3 dead in the center, with the battlegroup on each side of that and finally the tankers on the outer flanks, this way it's not easy to hit your caster and the demo corps without going through the shocktroopers (not an easy task to do when the have iron flesh), With the adjunct Sorscha can still target all her jacks with stoke the fire without any issue and the tankers are far away but they are the models that care the less about tactician from atanas. Playing with tactician Sorscha3 can play fairly agressively and since her melee weapon auto stationnary you have a reliable source of stationnary for the demo corps, she can charge throught the frontline hit something to freeze it (and do a lot of damage, pow 16 with auto freeze is pretty hard hitting for a caster), then have the demo corps charge in and finally have the shocktrooper just advance and shield wall in front of all that. It's been a while since I've played her since I'm currently having fun with all our new toys, but I've had a lot of success with the following list: conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1Pk_7s7skTnj8pl5l4l4l386l2l7l17QgdKhador [Theme] Armored Korps [Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Marauder [11] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [0(5)] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] |
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Post by lorddragonmaster on Feb 18, 2020 18:05:12 GMT
I've found this list works well. You don't have to be super protective of Sorcha thanks to the shield guard, and can still use her magic missile to freeze targets for the demo corp. With the Marauders/Strike tankers you got your large bases covered, and with your suppression tankers your infantry. I've tried both playing the list as a ball with tankers on the flanks, and spread with a unit on each flank, but like Auraco said Demo. corp is going to mini feat and die. You'll maybe get to take out one frozen target. conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1Pk_kTkTkTkZnjl5l4l4l3l3l2l7l17QgdKhador [Theme] Armored Korps [Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Rager [10] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] |
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Post by sand20go on Feb 18, 2020 18:10:00 GMT
Build your best sorscha3 ac list.....then swap in vlad2....you now have made it so much better. That's... just... No... Let the record show that I highly disagree here, the following is my opinion and the intent is not to offend anyone. Sorscha3 is probably the best pilot for armored corps, if you want to run Vlad2 just run him in Wolves where he's much better. My experience of playing vlad2 in armored corps and of playing against it is that on the feat turn the demo corps go in and then just die because they moved too far forward and the jacks just lag behind, the army lacks coherence and bottleneck itself to the enemy, while Sorscha3's army has a much more coherent feel and delivery with her jacks being fast thanks to Stoke the fire and her feat dictating when and where you engage. As for the list igor Why the devastators? Sorscha3 wants her battlegroup do be doing a lot of work, that means the devastators won't be close often (countercharge from stoke the fire is also terrible for them because it means opening them during your opponent turn). Kodiaks are the perfect jacks for her, with steam vent they help with the low volume of attack in the list to deal with infantry, they provide a much needed pathfinder and with heavy boiler and stoke the fire they can reliably get up the table pretty quickly, the field marshall also fix their pillow fist issues. I really disagree with michael about demo corps and Atanas & bannerguy. Tactician is good, tactician that can affect your caster is pretty freaking great. Sorscha3 is also my favorite caster to run the demo corps, if you want to run bombardiers go for a caster that actually support them, OW2 or Vlad1. One mistake I've seen people do a lot in armored corps is have shocktroopers on one side and unprotected demo corps on the other side, and it always does terribly when I see it on the table. With Sorscha3 you want the demo corps behind the shocktroopers with both unit and Sorscha3 dead in the center, with the battlegroup on each side of that and finally the tankers on the outer flanks, this way it's not easy to hit your caster and the demo corps without going through the shocktroopers (not an easy task to do when the have iron flesh), With the adjunct Sorscha can still target all her jacks with stoke the fire without any issue and the tankers are far away but they are the models that care the less about tactician from atanas. Playing with tactician Sorscha3 can play fairly agressively and since her melee weapon auto stationnary you have a reliable source of stationnary for the demo corps, she can charge throught the frontline hit something to freeze it (and do a lot of damage, pow 16 with auto freeze is pretty hard hitting for a caster), then have the demo corps charge in and finally have the shocktrooper just advance and shield wall in front of all that. It's been a while since I've played her since I'm currently having fun with all our new toys, but I've had a lot of success with the following list: conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1Pk_7s7skTnj8pl5l4l4l386l2l7l17QgdKhador [Theme] Armored Korps [Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Marauder [11] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Man-O-War Drakhun [9] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [0(5)] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] uhhh....I guess..... 1) Because of Arcane might Vlad2 is very capable of proccing the crit stationary with the democorp. Sorscha3 relies upon straight hardways or getting up and using her costly spell or her weapon). 2) Def 13 (15 against melee), ARM 19 DemoCorps with Altanas fixings are a THING. 3) Unlike Sorscha3 Vlad2 can go both offensive and defensive with his feat. MOST OF THE TIME you are feating offensively - but not always and depends on the armor situation. See #1 for how, with hand of fate and arcane might, you can use Vlad2 after the feat to still get lots of work down with the democorp. Because Shocktroopers that move 9 inches up in Shield wall that are now ARM 24, Def 13 and possibly with relatory strike are a "thing" 4) Her feat is meh. It is meh because it is semi redudant with the suppressor tankers and covering fire (aka what you would do if faced with weaponmaster spam) and because we have an eyeless sight objective. We also have cloud removal (hey Vlad!) 5) But the biggest thing is that I found she REALLY wants to be in a turtle. Focus 6. Even with adjunct spells short range. And that leaves her vulnerable to scenario play. You got the Drakhun in there (good) but you are relying upon winning the roll to get up the board fast and Leading with the Kodiaks so you do not get jammed out. Vlad2 stops that because of how the feat allows him bottom of 2 to push forward. Sad Sorscha3 waddles those shocks forward a might 6 inches....or has them at miserable ARM 19 out of shield wall. I want her to work. But I think she emerged from CID as something of a hot mess and the SR packet, with eyeless sight on a stick, really hurt her. Ps. Big caveat however. I have NOT played played her for a while and the meta is changing. Flames and all the weaponmasters have made some of the strategies/lists of say a year ago less viable (for example, double guardians exalted outside of Zaal2 feels a bit less strong with all the archons running around and stopping soul gathering (in certain instances). While it puts her a bit at risk, having winter's wrath and the option of freezing archons feels....well....good. But she is a hard caster - you gotta absolutely get work done with her individually because if you are just relying upon her to be a back line support caster I think you will find Vlad2 better. |
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Post by jonnyboy on Feb 18, 2020 19:18:09 GMT
As much as i disagree with Auraco about vlad2 in armor corps, i do agree with him on s3 list suggestions. Igor, i would ask yourself what you want out of your S3 list. Is she part of your pairing, or is it for fun? Are you trying to cover weaknesses of your WGK list? Pairing plays a big part of your list, having a goal for the list will make decisions easier.
Khador Jacks are already super durable, marauders and kodiaks are perfect for S3. It will also save you points for more support. Drakhuns seem amazing for what S3 wants. Hit hard and super 'fast'. Saxon Orrik is necessary in my book, AC hate rough terrain.
Democorps vs bombadiers is a goal question. I am so acostumed to democorp that threat 14", a 11" threat range on squishy models doesnt seem ideal. The bombadiers could fit her playstyle a bit better. Leave the armor cracking to jacks and use bombadiers to clear chaff/medium infantry.
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Post by sand20go on Feb 18, 2020 22:00:01 GMT
As much as i disagree with Auraco about vlad2 in armor corps, i do agree with him on s3 list suggestions. Igor, i would ask yourself what you want out of your S3 list. Is she part of your pairing, or is it for fun? Are you trying to cover weaknesses of your WGK list? Pairing plays a big part of your list, having a goal for the list will make decisions easier. Khador Jacks are already super durable, marauders and kodiaks are perfect for S3. It will also save you points for more support. Drakhuns seem amazing for what S3 wants. Hit hard and super 'fast'. Saxon Orrik is necessary in my book, AC hate rough terrain. Democorps vs bombadiers is a goal question. I am so acostumed to democorp that threat 14", a 11" threat range on squishy models doesnt seem ideal. The bombadiers could fit her playstyle a bit better. Leave the armor cracking to jacks and use bombadiers to clear chaff/medium infantry. You know a way to get some shooting into her list and provide some interesting ways of quasi protecting the DC so they are delivered would be to put in 12 points of Vig plus Battlepriests. Use the BP plus Altanas to be able to possibly proc vengenance. Lets also threat then chain to Beast 09 to potentially get out Hyperaggressive. Gwyn probably doesn't need to be there with Oppression tankers. Something like....(version 1 w/out Altanas) conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1Pk_kV7s7snjl5l4l3l3l7l17QgdoXp2Khador [Theme] Armored Korps [Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Beast 09 [18] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Order of Illumination Vigilants (min) [6] - Morrowan Battle Priest (3) [6] Version 2 with him conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-1Pk_kV7snj4Vl5l4l3l3l2l7l17QgdoXp2Khador [Theme] Armored Korps [Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Beast 09 [18] - Kodiak [13] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Eiryss, Angel of Retribution [6] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Strike Tanker [5] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Order of Illumination Vigilants (min) [6] - Morrowan Battle Priest (3) [6] Feels highly dependent on meta and how naked you want her. But I don't think your opponent can really shoot into that list. Depending on positioning of the Vig and the battlepriests you almost are guaranteed of getting either Vengenance or Hyper. Could be a fun list to break out - I just need to by the Vigilants ;-) (PS - I always love having E2 in a list with a caster who can stationary jacks. Stationary and disruption which you can do it multiple times is pretty backbreaking way of shutting down people's ability to play their game. |
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Post by auraco on Feb 19, 2020 2:26:03 GMT
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that Vlad2 Armored corps is shit or anything like that, I just feels like Vlad2 runs Wolves of winter so much better. I also disagree about Sorscha3 ending cid as a hot mess, she's really good, my favorite armored corps caster for any non bombardier build, by far. sand20go just to answer some of your points 1) Yes Vlad2 has arcane might, it helps the demo corps with their crit, but it's nowhere near as reliable as just making something stationnary with Sorscha, both of her stationnary tech offer some reliability that you can't get with arcane might. 2) The demo corps affected by the feat are somewhat hard to kill ish, they are still very killable since they tend to be in the middle of the oposing army with very little support. But I think one of the thing that annoys me the most about that module is that Dragos is always a weak link here, he needs to be close-ish to the rest of the guys and since he can't be affected by the feat he's just too easy to kill and the unit loses a lot of value when he dies. 3) I'll give you that one, Sorscha's feat is less versatile, it's still very useful to set your army up and all that but it's a very defensive feat with little offensive application 4) I wouldn't call her feat redundant with the suppression tankers, more like something that can be used to complement them, you can cover a lot of the board with a nope zone to single wound infantry with her feat AND the suppression tankers. The eyeless sight objective is also just one model, against most armies these days it means the other guy might be able to do something with a dude but it's not like it's a complete shut down of her feat either, sure a heavy might slip through, but it will be all alone and unsupported. 5) Armored corps in general wants to turtle, it's not unique to Sorscha3, she can also use her feat to run her shocktroopers without too much fear of retaliation, her jacks are also up the board and super releveant to scenario super fast, contrary to Vlad'2 battlegroup who just fumble forward trying to be releveant while the feated models are getting piled on if you went for the super agressive turn 2 feat. I dislike the disjointed feel Vlad2 armored corps has with models being super quick while other lag behind when Sorscha3 has a slower peak speed but an army that gets there all at the same time at an overall higher average speed. Stationnary tech is pretty valuable right now with the omnipresence of archons. The min vigilants with battlepriest makes for an interesting module to put in lists, it's really sad for the rager when it's main utility of shield guard is overshadowed by a bunch of merc. I really like the inclusion of the vigilants  I would not run Sorscha3 without Atanas though, having tactician affecting her is just way too good and it allows her to play active while still being easy to keep safe. I'm also not sold on Eyriss in the list, sure you can stationnary and disrupt jacks, but usually when you stationnary something, it's to kill it with shatter, so the disruption doesn't feel all that useful. At that point I'd probably just pay 6 points for Scythe and get her to just kill more stuff to clear the way for the rest of the army. |
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Post by jonnyboy on Feb 19, 2020 3:19:38 GMT
I know we're talking Soracha3, but you should give vlad2 another try.
There is very little that can handle demo corps fully decked out. if your opponent made the mistake of letting them dig into their lines with retaliatory, feat, HOF, sanguine bond, and lost a high value model, boy are they in for trouble. They are a pain to dig out and will dish out pain the whole time. They either commit too much, or not enough and they get to vengeance. It's sad they are called demolition corps, because they're the true shock troopees.
Having 3 jacks, and a BE right behind them is exactly what you want too. It does take some positioning and effort to setup. If your opponent is smart, they'll find a way to remove buffs early, sanguine bond or saxon or atanas.
Sorscha3 definitely plays a different game, more of a turtle like you said. She wants the opponents elite models to crash on shock troopers and then hit them back. She's solid, but has some big weaknesses imo. Namely being slow/focus intensive caster, max threat of 11", and a feat that relies on your opponents inability to see through clouds.
There are some matchups that will struggle to bite into armor 23 STs and armor 20 jacks. I always wanted to run a 3 unit S3 list. Min democorps is spot on, her ability to freeze stuff is super small, 8-12" is nothing. So i figure they work like a bodyguard unit and smash stuff that gets too close.
War Room Army
Khador - 05 - Full Armor Warcaster
Theme: Armored Corps
75 / 75 Army
Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff - WJ: +28
- Greylord Adjunct - PC: 4
- Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0
Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 4
Saxon Orrik - PC: 4
Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4
Man-O-War Bombardiers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
- Man-O-War Bombardier Officer - PC: 0
Man-O-War Demolition Corps - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard - Arconovich & Standard Bearer: 7
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
THEME: Armored Corps
---
GENERATED : 02/18/2020 22:20:17
BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18
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Post by auraco on Feb 19, 2020 11:55:13 GMT
I know we're talking Soracha3, but you should give vlad2 another try. There is very little that can handle demo corps fully decked out. if your opponent made the mistake of letting them dig into their lines with retaliatory, feat, HOF, sanguine bond, and lost a high value model, boy are they in for trouble. They are a pain to dig out and will dish out pain the whole time. They either commit too much, or not enough and they get to vengeance. It's sad they are called demolition corps, because they're the true shock troopees. Having 3 jacks, and a BE right behind them is exactly what you want too. It does take some positioning and effort to setup. If your opponent is smart, they'll find a way to remove buffs early, sanguine bond or saxon or atanas. Sorscha3 definitely plays a different game, more of a turtle like you said. She wants the opponents elite models to crash on shock troopers and then hit them back. She's solid, but has some big weaknesses imo. Namely being slow/focus intensive caster, max threat of 11", and a feat that relies on your opponents inability to see through clouds. There are some matchups that will struggle to bite into armor 23 STs and armor 20 jacks. I always wanted to run a 3 unit S3 list. Min democorps is spot on, her ability to freeze stuff is super small, 8-12" is nothing. So i figure they work like a bodyguard unit and smash stuff that gets too close. War Room Army Khador - 05 - Full Armor Warcaster Theme: Armored Corps 75 / 75 Army Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff - WJ: +28 - Greylord Adjunct - PC: 4 - Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Marauder - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4) Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0 Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0 Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 4 Saxon Orrik - PC: 4 Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer - PC: 4 Man-O-War Bombardiers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 - Man-O-War Bombardier Officer - PC: 0 Man-O-War Demolition Corps - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard - Arconovich & Standard Bearer: 7 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 THEME: Armored Corps --- GENERATED : 02/18/2020 22:20:17 BUILD ID : 2089.19-07-18 My experience is that even feated demo corps are very manageable, yes it takes some effort to do so, but saying very little can deal with them is just not true. This comes from having played them and against them quite a lot. And again, Dragos is always the weak link, even on the feat turn he's stick out like a sore thumb and vengeance on the unit does rely on him, sadly. My main point is also that if you want to run Vlad2 just do it in wolves where he's so much better than in armored corps. Seems like people dismiss Sorscha3 a lot because her feat is meh (I'll be the first to admit, it's not that great) but a caster's kit is way more than just a feat, for example Vlad3 runs Wotof very well and is feat is... really bad. Sorscha3's kit strenght doesn't come from her feat, but from her spells and passive ability, flank on our jacks is insanely good and having a spd buff that boost our jack speed that can affect more than one jack at the time is great for scenario presence. |
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igor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 122
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Post by igor on Feb 19, 2020 12:55:27 GMT
Komrades! Thank you for your suggestions. I have a few comments, and perhaps more questions. 1) Regarding Vlad2. I have to admit that I don't really get him. I observe that he is successful, but I find it stranger. I have to admit, I have never played him. He is moving forward on the painting table, so soon. I'll stick to Sorscha3 so far. 2) Devastators. I have no other argument than I think they are really cool models. However, I see the point of Kodiaks. So, I'll go down that route, and find some other list to put all my Devastators into  3) Turtle formation. I like the idea of Shocktroopers in front, and Demo corps behind. It usually works when I play it. If I leave the Demo corps out in the open, they die! 4) What do I want from the list? My main list is a Vlad1, double Gun Carriage WGK list. In general it handles many more lists than I would have thought. I think my problem is list where the carriages have no effect or get shot of the board very early. It seems to be in trouble with Retribution. Mostly when there are double lawn mower. Also, electric Cygnar lists. There are probably more that I haven't played yet. I general, Menoth is easy for WGK, also to a degree Khador, non-electric Cygnar (except the mega-armour list), Convergence is also fine. Circle is bad. Also, I like Man-O-Wars 5) I don't own Strike Tankers; also my WGK list normally goes into colossal (triple Marauder). 6) Minimum Demo Corps + Dragos. It that really enough, and/or should Dragos the go? That would open the opportunity for a unit of Bombardiers. So, my basis list is now: Khador [Theme] Armored Korps [Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] The keen-eyed will notice that Sylys has moved in, instead of the Adjunct. I have been thinking about whether Sylys perhaps is better? a) Same price, Requisition points doesn't matter as they already are filled by more expensive stuff. b) I of course loose out on other potential Mercs (Tharamite Archon for one). c) Both do Arcane Assist and Spiritual Conduit. d) Sylys can do Arcane Secrets, which gives an extra die (discard the lowest) on a spell attack. Where Sorscha hits DEF 13 (17 boosted) on the average with the Adjunct, she can hit DEF 14 (DEF 18) with Sylys. Assuming she is going the cast Winter's Wrath (which I hope), the extra die might work wonders. Is this better than a cloud, a spray and Eyeless Sight? I rarely use the could, even rarer the spray (and the tankers can spray), most scenarios will have an objective for Eyeless Sight (which only Sorscha is going to use). Yet, the question remains. Sylys vs. Adjunct? All in all, the list can fit in 15 points more. I am currently leaning towards adding this: Greylord Forge Seer [4] (Sorscha is often strapped for focus) Greylord Forge Seer [4] (Sorscha is often strapped for focus) Man-O-War Kovnik [4] (Both main Man-O-War units can move faster) Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] (Repair is never a bed idea) I do however feel that it might be too much "support". |
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Post by auraco on Feb 19, 2020 13:22:55 GMT
I think the adjunct is more usefull than Sylys because guidance also gives magical attack and some match ups can be strait up unwinable if you don't have a way to deal with incorporeal models, not all scenario have objective and you need to be in a specific place to get the most out of an objective. Also being able to have more than one model with eyeless sight is a good thing, against say a cloudwall you'd rather be able to charge with two jacks instead of just the one.
Also while Arcane Secret helps cast Winter's Wrath, it's really not a spell that you're going to cast often, most of her focus usually goes into castking stoke the fire and fuelling her jacks.
I'm really not a fan of the Forge Seers, 4 points for an empower bot is just not worth it, there are better options. I might get a bit rant-y about the forge seers, but they are just bad models... they are in 3 of our theme force, the only model that makes it into more theme force than that is the adjunct if I'm not mistaken and well there is really no reason to take them in any of these theme, that tells you how bad they are.
I'd really like to fit in a strike tanker into the list but if they are not an option you could really use more models that do work than forge seers, a drakhun and a merc solo could be good, the possibilites are really endless here depending on the merc solo you own(Saxon for extra pathfinder, eilish for puppet master and unbinding, Scythe for some extra shooting, Ragman for extra hitting power, you can really go wild here, I'd steer clear of the hermit though, his armor debuff would really be worst for you most of the time because Armored corps wants to tank and stay clumped up so using him would probably do more harm than good), or an archon, a second kovnik and a min unit of mechaniks. I wouldn't go out of my way to include mechaniks in the list, but when you're done with the list and have 3 point remaining they are not a bad option, they usually do get some repair done in my games, the only annoying part is that they don't benefit from tactician.
You could also play with the battlegroup with the remaining points, I'd keep a minimum of two kodiaks, but upgrading one to a destroyer or to beast 09 could be a good move. Beast 09 with flank is probably really scary.
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Post by jonnyboy on Feb 19, 2020 14:02:35 GMT
Vlad2 is a super dynamic caster, and i felt the same before i started playing him.
As for your list. I would recommend adjunct over sylys for a couple reasons. His SnP spell effect won't mean you dont need to boost to hit, you wouldnt want to chance it (you're already investing a lot to cast the stationary spell). Guidance is a great spell to have on deck, can really make some matchups. It also allows you to take Saxon. Before i included saxon in my AC lists i really felt the need for pathfinder that wasnt tied to a charge. He's a necessity in my opinion.
I havent played games with S3 and full demo boat, but i think it is too large a target for your enemy. There is always going to be away to get past the ST infront of them. If you reduce them to a minimum, and get rid of drago, they have a smaller target on their back.
A lot of people disagree, and i think they're insane, but our battle engines are one of the best things in the theme. The siege chariot has the same issues as the strike tanker, one shot, one miss. Without a means to increase accuracy they aren't that great (another plug for V2). The assault chariot on the other hand, this thing does so much work. Pow 12 with pow 10 blasts, multiple shots!. I've played it into solo heavy lists and this thing eats solos for dinner. You charge it in, knock things down, damage some heavies, and start blasting away at support models. If you get close enough you cant miss. Without a doubt you can catch your opponent offguard with tactician, moving through the BE.
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Post by sand20go on Feb 19, 2020 14:11:09 GMT
Komrades! Thank you for your suggestions. I have a few comments, and perhaps more questions. 1) Regarding Vlad2. I have to admit that I don't really get him. I observe that he is successful, but I find it stranger. I have to admit, I have never played him. He is moving forward on the painting table, so soon. I'll stick to Sorscha3 so far. 2) Devastators. I have no other argument than I think they are really cool models. However, I see the point of Kodiaks. So, I'll go down that route, and find some other list to put all my Devastators into 3) Turtle formation. I like the idea of Shocktroopers in front, and Demo corps behind. It usually works when I play it. If I leave the Demo corps out in the open, they die! 4) What do I want from the list? My main list is a Vlad1, double Gun Carriage WGK list. In general it handles many more lists than I would have thought. I think my problem is list where the carriages have no effect or get shot of the board very early. It seems to be in trouble with Retribution. Mostly when there are double lawn mower. Also, electric Cygnar lists. There are probably more that I haven't played yet. I general, Menoth is easy for WGK, also to a degree Khador, non-electric Cygnar (except the mega-armour list), Convergence is also fine. Circle is bad. Also, I like Man-O-Wars 5) I don't own Strike Tankers; also my WGK list normally goes into colossal (triple Marauder). 6) Minimum Demo Corps + Dragos. It that really enough, and/or should Dragos the go? That would open the opportunity for a unit of Bombardiers. So, my basis list is now: Khador [Theme] Armored Korps [Sorscha 3] Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Man-O-War Kovnik [4] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [14] - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] The keen-eyed will notice that Sylys has moved in, instead of the Adjunct. I have been thinking about whether Sylys perhaps is better? a) Same price, Requisition points doesn't matter as they already are filled by more expensive stuff. b) I of course loose out on other potential Mercs (Tharamite Archon for one). c) Both do Arcane Assist and Spiritual Conduit. d) Sylys can do Arcane Secrets, which gives an extra die (discard the lowest) on a spell attack. Where Sorscha hits DEF 13 (17 boosted) on the average with the Adjunct, she can hit DEF 14 (DEF 18) with Sylys. Assuming she is going the cast Winter's Wrath (which I hope), the extra die might work wonders. Is this better than a cloud, a spray and Eyeless Sight? I rarely use the could, even rarer the spray (and the tankers can spray), most scenarios will have an objective for Eyeless Sight (which only Sorscha is going to use). Yet, the question remains. Sylys vs. Adjunct? All in all, the list can fit in 15 points more. I am currently leaning towards adding this: Greylord Forge Seer [4] (Sorscha is often strapped for focus) Greylord Forge Seer [4] (Sorscha is often strapped for focus) Man-O-War Kovnik [4] (Both main Man-O-War units can move faster) Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] (Repair is never a bed idea) I do however feel that it might be too much "support". Not to high Jack your list but your devestators will go well in my butcher 3 list |
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