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Post by zwergenkrieger on May 19, 2020 6:59:53 GMT
Thanks for all those great batreps! Since roughly 2 years I have been thinking about restarting Trolls, but something is still holding me back. I guess it´s the really bad start for Trolls in the current edition when all of the power of the former edition suddenly dissapeared. I loved to play Calandra in her second theme which basically included light warbeasts, Earthborns, some Gargantuen here and there and some units of Pygs (especially the Burrowers and Fire Eaters). For a long time these models (except Fire Eaters and some Gargantuans) seemed to be subpar to say the best and therefore I couldn´t imagine to play Trolls anytime soon. So I sold all my stuff. In the current iteration of the game I´m thinking about some Calandra fun once more. What do you think, Trollock, is Calandra on the right spot to restart the faction with this lovely warcaster? YES! Calandra is super good and fun to play. Ill be playing her next game, now with 5 beasts and 4 units of Runeshapers. She is good with almost anything! The old list of spamming light elementals will not work in this edition, but he Earthborn with bullet dodger and a whelp is something you just HAVE to experience once in your life 
I heard about some new Runeshapers love. What do you think makes them playable again?
Regarding elemental lights: yes, the former iteration won´t work anymore simply due to too few ranged attacks now (and the non existing stacking of useful animi of course).
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Post by Trollock on May 19, 2020 8:55:35 GMT
YES! Calandra is super good and fun to play. Ill be playing her next game, now with 5 beasts and 4 units of Runeshapers. She is good with almost anything! The old list of spamming light elementals will not work in this edition, but he Earthborn with bullet dodger and a whelp is something you just HAVE to experience once in your life
I heard about some new Runeshapers love. What do you think makes them playable again?
Regarding elemental lights: yes, the former iteration won´t work anymore simply due to too few ranged attacks now (and the non existing stacking of useful animi of course).
Cant say im sure they are playable again. John Henry (Canadian fella) has popularized a list with Grissel 1 and 5 units of them that he claims is really good. Ive tried it twice and im sure its at least very difficult to play the list well, but it probably has potential. The thing that changed is the slightly lower point cost, and double Dhunian Archons to keep them around. |
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Post by Trollock on May 30, 2020 21:22:55 GMT
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Post by zwergenkrieger on May 30, 2020 22:29:01 GMT
Thanks, nice reports. I´m not sold on the runeshapers and can´t understand why every guy and his grandma is talking about them.
Do you think that Trolls are in a good spot right now? Or do you think they need something special to really shine?
Since the days of Calandras Children of Dhunia theme list I like to restart Trolls. At the beginning of MkIII Trollbloods looked like really boring to play with no tricks what so ever and overpriced stuff. Well, I sold my collection and went back to Minions with which I had a great time.
But every now and then I think about Trolls and wether I should start them once more. Your batreps do a great job to increase my interests in Trollbloods.
Thanks
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Post by Dev Null on May 31, 2020 0:18:03 GMT
'Nother nice one; thanks!
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Post by zwergenkrieger on May 31, 2020 10:47:27 GMT
One thing I noticed is that you won because the opponents clocked out in both games. Do you think that specific Calandra build is able to win by other win conditions? Ie is it able to grind down the opponent? I have a Rask Posse Spam list that is built to let the opponent clock out and it works wonders. Even on tournaments against more experienced players they normally do not see it coming. My list is all about fast playing while I try to avoid loosing on scenario. Maybe your Calandra list has to be played the same way? One last question: you talk about the Earthborn as if it was Calandra´s loveliest pet. Why don´t you run two of them? In all of the different tabletop games I played I noticed that if you really like one thing to perfom, just take two of it. That way if your opponent gets rid of your lovely pet, you´ve still got on in reserve to let it shine.
One really last thing: I read a lot about that Dhunian Archon love these days and I wonder why no one runs it with Champions. What is the big advantage of Runeshapers? Especially under Calandra, a full unit of Champions with their +2 DEF in btb should give you a highly resilient unit that is also able to show your opponent how to swing an axe.  |
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Post by Trollock on May 31, 2020 11:08:20 GMT
Thanks, nice reports. I´m not sold on the runeshapers and can´t understand why every guy and his grandma is talking about them. Do you think that Trolls are in a good spot right now? Or do you think they need something special to really shine? Since the days of Calandras Children of Dhunia theme list I like to restart Trolls. At the beginning of MkIII Trollbloods looked like really boring to play with no tricks what so ever and overpriced stuff. Well, I sold my collection and went back to Minions with which I had a great time. But every now and then I think about Trolls and wether I should start them once more. Your batreps do a great job to increase my interests in Trollbloods. Thanks Trolls are probably the worst faction in the game, but its not like they are unplayable. Im not at all sold on the Shaper spam lists, but i wanted to give them a shot. It is clearly a hard list to pilot, so im giving them some reps. The shapers are pretty mopey, but the archons really helps them out.
Glad you like my reports!  |
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Post by Trollock on May 31, 2020 11:15:44 GMT
One thing I noticed is that you won because the opponents clocked out in both games. Do you think that specific Calandra build is able to win by other win conditions? Ie is it able to grind down the opponent? I have a Rask Posse Spam list that is built to let the opponent clock out and it works wonders. Even on tournaments against more experienced players they normally do not see it coming. My list is all about fast playing while I try to avoid loosing on scenario. Maybe your Calandra list has to be played the same way? One last question: you talk about the Earthborn as if it was Calandra´s loveliest pet. Why don´t you run two of them? In all of the different tabletop games I played I noticed that if you really like one thing to perfom, just take two of it. That way if your opponent gets rid of your lovely pet, you´ve still got on in reserve to let it shine.
One really last thing: I read a lot about that Dhunian Archon love these days and I wonder why no one runs it with Champions. What is the big advantage of Runeshapers? Especially under Calandra, a full unit of Champions with their +2 DEF in btb should give you a highly resilient unit that is also able to show your opponent how to swing an axe. Im not sure if this list can win another way. In the games i played neither player would/could do a massive turn of attrition to take a scenario lead and the games went for a long time. Just killing all my shaper take a LOT of time for many lists it seems, and they ran out of time before they could cripple my list.
EBDT is super sweet because of how it synergizes with Bullet Dodger, and i can only have one of those out. I did play some games earlier on with two EBDTs and they are pretty great anyway, so you could definitely run two if needed. This time i went with two bashers rather than a second EBDT. Its all about priorities.
The "advantage" with shapers is that the theme force allows you to bring TWO archons. In the champion themes you can only have one (and no other merc to boot). I think that if all troll themes allowed two Dhunians it would go an unreasonably long way towards fixing trolls (but would completely invalidate PoD as a list again). There is a big difference between one and two archons. Madrak 1/Calandra with double champions, some kriels/fenns and then two Archons could be super legit if it were allowed. Alas, it is not  |
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Post by zwergenkrieger on May 31, 2020 12:43:22 GMT
Im not sure if this list can win another way. In the games i played neither player would/could do a massive turn of attrition to take a scenario lead and the games went for a long time. Just killing all my shaper take a LOT of time for many lists it seems, and they ran out of time before they could cripple my list. Well, that explains the strenght of that double Dhunian Archon list pretty sweet. I thought that Bullet Dodger on the first EBDT allows you to offer a piece trade in your own favour due to how hard it is to remove an EBDT with bullet dodger and star crossed. But I´m not really good at calculating piece trades anyway. Thanks for the explanation! Totally overlooked that you can only field one Dhunian Archon in most Troll themes. |
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Post by Dev Null on Jun 1, 2020 0:21:37 GMT
One Dhunian Archon _is_ amazing with Champions though. If anything, I think people talk about it less because it's such a no-brainer - what's to say? It's just bloody good. Meanwhile, people are talking about the Runeshapers because it's hard to play and not everyone is convinced it's a good idea, but some people are clearly getting decent results with it...
Interesting to me that you talk about clocking your opponent out with the Double Archon list. I think you might be downplaying your own skill level there a touch. The couple of times (and it is only a couple, so my skill level is lower even than usual) I've tried playing double Archons, I get myself in clock trouble because there are so many options I have to keep track of on my opponent's turn, in measuring bubbles and deciding when to save things. When I waffle too long, I have to swap the clock over, but more importantly I'm not planning my next turn, I'm reacting to theirs...
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jun 2, 2020 18:45:00 GMT
One Dhunian Archon _is_ amazing with Champions though. If anything, I think people talk about it less because it's such a no-brainer - what's to say? It's just bloody good. Meanwhile, people are talking about the Runeshapers because it's hard to play and not everyone is convinced it's a good idea, but some people are clearly getting decent results with it... Interesting to me that you talk about clocking your opponent out with the Double Archon list. I think you might be downplaying your own skill level there a touch. The couple of times (and it is only a couple, so my skill level is lower even than usual) I've tried playing double Archons, I get myself in clock trouble because there are so many options I have to keep track of on my opponent's turn, in measuring bubbles and deciding when to save things. When I waffle too long, I have to swap the clock over, but more importantly I'm not planning my next turn, I'm reacting to theirs... I've found that you have to know what those key models are going into the opponents turn. (Mulg, a specific runeshaper, whatever) and you only waiver if you really have a compelling reason. don't give up your contesting easily. keep Mulg alive, etc. Let them kill the useless chaff if that keeps you in a position to score/punish them when it's done. I've had Archons hold onto their no damage ability until the last two attacks just because that forced my opponent not to commit to Mulg in any meaningful way (or whatever was important at the time). List is damnable hard to play for sure. |
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Post by Trollock on Jun 7, 2020 11:33:27 GMT
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jun 7, 2020 14:11:07 GMT
Thanks for sharing!
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Post by Trollock on Jun 9, 2020 11:41:45 GMT
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274 
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Post by jarrow on Jun 9, 2020 12:23:36 GMT
Can I as why you deploy 4 whelps? I see reason to deploy one (or two) whelp on reckon2 to control friendly flag, but you still have plenty of other solos to do that and whelps biggest strength is that enemy can't rely where they will pop up.
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